Furiosa with Kyle Buchanan

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David, Blank Check with Griffin and David

[00:00:09] Don't know what to say or to expect

[00:00:13] All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check

[00:00:19] Ladies and gentlemen, start your podcasts!

[00:00:27] Is that Dementis?

[00:00:29] Yeah, I cannot do it.

[00:00:31] I was practicing it this morning.

[00:00:33] And I cannot do it because I wanted to do one of the longer monologues.

[00:00:37] I cannot do it.

[00:00:39] I don't think I'm...

[00:00:41] So thankful you did not do one of those monologues because they are meaty.

[00:00:43] Yeah, I don't think I'm quite good with the Australian accent to begin with.

[00:00:49] And his voice in particular is...

[00:00:51] He's doing a voice.

[00:00:53] On top of that.

[00:00:55] Yeah, he's not just talking in his regular voice, his regular accent.

[00:00:57] He's doing a weird voice.

[00:00:59] I actually, I feel like he's doing some stuff in this movie.

[00:01:03] Oh really?

[00:01:05] He's not just naturalistic?

[00:01:07] He's reading all these reviews that are like, Chris Hemsworth always plays himself.

[00:01:11] Rolls head of bed, gives you the same ol'

[00:01:13] Chris Hemsworth.

[00:01:15] We have to have a conversation about it.

[00:01:17] He based his voice on a seagull.

[00:01:19] Did he really?

[00:01:21] I have to know more.

[00:01:23] Yes, he did.

[00:01:25] He heard a squawking seagull when he was in the playground with his kids one day.

[00:01:29] He heard that seagull and he said,

[00:01:31] That is a skeleton key. That's a way into this character.

[00:01:33] Did he also base his nose on that seagull?

[00:01:35] No, but there's a whole nose story too.

[00:01:37] Oh, we need to hear the nose story.

[00:01:39] I've actually been wondering about that.

[00:01:41] How do you arrive at what kind of fucked up you're going to be, right?

[00:01:43] In Bad Max.

[00:01:45] Here's my question right off the bat.

[00:01:47] How deeply embedded have you been on this movie?

[00:01:49] I know that so much of Furiosa in development

[00:01:51] is like inextricably intertwined with Fury Road,

[00:01:53] which you obviously wrote the book on.

[00:01:55] But then once this movie starts up in earnest in production,

[00:01:57] how deeply embedded have you been on it?

[00:01:59] You can introduce our guest in a second, I guess.

[00:02:01] Not embedded in the sense that I was on the set or anything,

[00:02:03] but having gotten to know so many of the people who worked on Fury Road,

[00:02:05] there would be occasional texts or you'd get a text from a friend

[00:02:07] that you didn't know existed.

[00:02:09] And I think that's what I've been doing.

[00:02:11] I've been trying to figure out how to get people to understand

[00:02:13] what I'm trying to do.

[00:02:15] I've been trying to figure out how to get people to understand

[00:02:17] what I'm trying to do.

[00:02:19] And then, you know, there would be occasional texts or you'd hear stuff.

[00:02:21] The relationships.

[00:02:23] Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:25] And so, yeah, it was interesting.

[00:02:27] Also, when they were...

[00:02:29] When I was writing my book,

[00:02:31] they were basically in pre-production

[00:02:33] for a while on Furiosa.

[00:02:35] So I was hearing a lot of what they were up to.

[00:02:37] It was happening,

[00:02:39] which felt not real.

[00:02:41] It felt insane.

[00:02:43] This felt like a movie that was never going to happen.

[00:02:45] It was more of a sort of like,

[00:02:47] to my knowledge, Fury Road was 20 years of,

[00:02:49] we swear to God it's happening.

[00:02:51] And then six months later,

[00:02:53] it'd be like, there was too much rain in Namibia,

[00:02:55] never mind.

[00:02:57] We're waiting two years.

[00:02:59] It just felt like...

[00:03:01] And you're like, great, so that's never going to happen.

[00:03:03] Right, so it just... Furiosa, you're like, I know this dance.

[00:03:05] The fact that this movie got made in nine years

[00:03:07] feels astonishing.

[00:03:09] Like an astonishingly quick turnaround.

[00:03:11] Well, yeah, in a front burner kind of way.

[00:03:13] But they had written this back in,

[00:03:15] you know, 2003, 2004.

[00:03:17] So in a sense,

[00:03:19] it almost took as long as Fury Road.

[00:03:21] It just wasn't on that front burner.

[00:03:23] Right. But then the other side of it is,

[00:03:25] the release of this movie

[00:03:27] has really made me struggle

[00:03:29] with the passage of time.

[00:03:31] Where I'm like, I cannot believe it has been nine years

[00:03:33] since Fury Road.

[00:03:35] The fact that he has three movies in nine years

[00:03:37] also feels weird.

[00:03:39] Yeah.

[00:03:41] Like that feels like a sort of a normal amount

[00:03:43] of movies to have in nine years.

[00:03:45] If you're a big movie maker.

[00:03:47] And not really for him.

[00:03:49] Obviously, there was a big gap, but...

[00:03:51] The only thing weirder than that he actually got

[00:03:53] Furiosa made and got it made

[00:03:55] within a decade of Fury Road is that

[00:03:57] he made another movie in between.

[00:03:59] That is the part that is astonishing.

[00:04:01] And then you also factor in that there was a lawsuit

[00:04:03] that slowed this movie down.

[00:04:05] Well, we'll talk... All right, what's this podcast?

[00:04:07] This is... Blank Check Fury Road.

[00:04:09] Okay.

[00:04:11] It's Blank Check A Mad Max Saga.

[00:04:13] What was our...

[00:04:15] It was called Mad Pod Fury Cast.

[00:04:17] There you go.

[00:04:19] Of course it was.

[00:04:21] Look, this is a podcast about filmographies.

[00:04:23] Directors who have massive success early on in their career

[00:04:25] such as making a movie

[00:04:27] called Mad Max.

[00:04:29] And 45 years later,

[00:04:31] you're still fucking...

[00:04:33] Basically writing your own checks

[00:04:35] in that universe.

[00:04:37] Massive success, giving a series of blank checks,

[00:04:39] make whatever crazy passion products they want.

[00:04:41] Sometimes they're sex-clearing, sometimes they...

[00:04:43] Bounce baby.

[00:04:45] Drive across the wasteland.

[00:04:47] My name is Griffin. I'm David.

[00:04:49] This is a return to George Miller,

[00:04:51] a man we covered in 2020.

[00:04:53] Yeah, about four years ago.

[00:04:55] The Fury Road of years.

[00:04:57] Yep.

[00:04:59] That was the podcast that straddled

[00:05:01] the pandemic, right?

[00:05:03] Like half the episodes were done...

[00:05:05] No, I guess almost all the episodes

[00:05:07] were done IRL.

[00:05:09] Now that I look at it.

[00:05:11] No, Pig in the City was the first remote episode

[00:05:13] we ever did.

[00:05:15] Yeah, so there are a couple.

[00:05:17] And you'd never know it because the episode turned out perfectly and everyone loved it.

[00:05:19] But yes, no, that was one

[00:05:21] that we recorded

[00:05:23] and Emily's hot take was

[00:05:25] Fury Road is about the internet.

[00:05:27] And we were like, yes, the most insane hellscape

[00:05:29] I can imagine us living through.

[00:05:31] And then like six months later, you're like,

[00:05:33] Fury Road is about this.

[00:05:35] It's about all of existence.

[00:05:37] But I mean,

[00:05:39] even in the four years

[00:05:41] since we did that episode,

[00:05:43] I feel more confident saying

[00:05:45] maybe one of the best movies ever made.

[00:05:47] Fury Road?

[00:05:49] It always hits.

[00:05:51] I think it is almost like...

[00:05:53] Kyle agrees.

[00:05:55] No one is going to call you crazy for mounting

[00:05:57] the argument,

[00:05:59] is this the greatest action film ever made?

[00:06:01] I think within nine years it has been accepted

[00:06:03] as like, yeah, that's in the conversation.

[00:06:05] At the very least

[00:06:07] in the conversation,

[00:06:09] at the very least top five.

[00:06:11] And I think at this point if you did claim it

[00:06:13] as the best action film ever made,

[00:06:15] people wouldn't stand in the way and cry recency bias.

[00:06:17] No.

[00:06:19] It just feels right.

[00:06:21] It has completely codified.

[00:06:23] Exactly. It has settled firmly.

[00:06:25] It is in that way that

[00:06:27] The Silence of the Lambs was the horror movie

[00:06:29] that broke through with Prestige Awards bodies.

[00:06:31] It was kind of the action movie

[00:06:33] that did that. I know it didn't win

[00:06:35] Best Picture, but right?

[00:06:37] That never happens and it did.

[00:06:39] And you're like, how did that happen?

[00:06:41] It was just that good. Everyone was just kind of like...

[00:06:43] Undeniable.

[00:06:45] The Matrix didn't do that.

[00:06:47] I'm trying to think of other types of

[00:06:49] critically acclaimed action hits.

[00:06:53] But that's not the movie we're here to talk about.

[00:06:55] We're here to talk about its prequel

[00:06:57] slash follow up.

[00:06:59] This is basically Fury Road minus one.

[00:07:01] Sort of.

[00:07:03] We joke about movies having

[00:07:05] franchises that are so complicated

[00:07:07] they branch out.

[00:07:09] Well, yes.

[00:07:11] But also this is the first Mad Max movie

[00:07:13] to feel connected to another Mad Max movie.

[00:07:15] This is what I'm saying.

[00:07:17] And that's not surprising.

[00:07:19] It's not like

[00:07:21] I watched the trailers for this movie and

[00:07:23] I anticipated, yes,

[00:07:25] that this is set in the Fury Road universe.

[00:07:27] But then I was

[00:07:29] sort of reflecting on, like, he's never really done that before.

[00:07:31] The whole point was they were never connected

[00:07:33] in a way.

[00:07:35] But Furiosa, obviously, yes, it's

[00:07:37] minus one. You're right.

[00:07:39] Our guest today is Kyle Buchanan.

[00:07:41] Took far too long to introduce you.

[00:07:43] Wrote the book on Mad Max Fury Road.

[00:07:45] Kyle Buchanan of the New York Times.

[00:07:47] The succeeding

[00:07:49] New York Times, not the failing New York Times.

[00:07:51] But also,

[00:07:53] yes, the author of

[00:07:55] the New York Times bestseller, right?

[00:07:57] Are you allowed to have

[00:07:59] New York Times bestsellers when you work at the Times?

[00:08:01] Blood and sweat and chrome.

[00:08:03] Yes. The wild and true story

[00:08:05] of Mad Max Fury Road.

[00:08:07] Right? It was, you know,

[00:08:09] you wrote the book on Mad Max Fury Road.

[00:08:11] I did. Thank you, Richtus.

[00:08:13] Thank you, Scrotus.

[00:08:15] Who's Scrotus?

[00:08:17] I think you, David, you're Richtus.

[00:08:19] I was going to say, I think you're Scrotus.

[00:08:21] I'm not fighting that for a second.

[00:08:23] I'm a smeg-er.

[00:08:25] And Ben is smeg? No, smeg's on the other side.

[00:08:27] Ben is organic mechanic.

[00:08:29] Yeah, Ben is organic mechanic.

[00:08:31] That is dead on.

[00:08:33] Absolutely.

[00:08:35] But I would listen to Blank Check with Richtus and Scrotus.

[00:08:37] Of course.

[00:08:39] That slots neatly into the theme song.

[00:08:41] They have good taste.

[00:08:43] So, Scrotus is new, yes?

[00:08:45] Yes.

[00:08:47] Because Josh Hellman is in Mad Max Fury Road.

[00:08:49] He's the guy with Nicholas Hoult.

[00:08:51] He's that leading.

[00:08:53] He goes like this at one point when he's behind the wheel.

[00:08:55] This is the thing I love that no one else would do.

[00:08:57] Where Miller's like,

[00:08:59] I got my stock company of actors.

[00:09:01] And they're like, but you used this guy in the last movie.

[00:09:03] And he's like, I don't care, I like him.

[00:09:05] I'll dress him differently.

[00:09:07] And he uses two actors twice

[00:09:09] in this movie?

[00:09:11] Is that right?

[00:09:13] Well, yeah, there's a couple.

[00:09:15] Elsa Pataky, who's Chris Hemsworth's wife,

[00:09:17] is one of the Vuvolini,

[00:09:19] the only woman in this gang.

[00:09:21] But you know, Hugh Keesburn,

[00:09:23] who played Emolga and Joe in Fury Road,

[00:09:25] was Toe Cutter,

[00:09:27] the very first Mad Max villain.

[00:09:29] And so many people were like,

[00:09:31] oh, so is this secretly,

[00:09:33] it's supposed to be old Toe Cutter?

[00:09:35] And George Miller's like, I don't care about that shit.

[00:09:37] I don't care about the timeline.

[00:09:39] I make the movie that I want to make.

[00:09:41] Which does make this movie bizarre.

[00:09:43] Yeah, it's interesting.

[00:09:45] Because he's not as lore-pilled

[00:09:47] as everybody else, and yet

[00:09:49] Fury Road has this center of gravity

[00:09:51] from which

[00:09:53] this movie obviously sprung

[00:09:55] and the Max movie that they wanted

[00:09:57] to make after this, which, you know,

[00:09:59] Godspeed to them. Good luck.

[00:10:01] Which would be The Wasteland?

[00:10:03] Would also have been a prequel to Fury Road.

[00:10:05] Weird.

[00:10:07] So this movie came along and kind of scrambled

[00:10:09] what was typically a mythology

[00:10:11] that would essentially just refresh itself.

[00:10:13] Wait, so there's two prequels

[00:10:15] that were essentially written

[00:10:17] alongside Fury Road, right?

[00:10:19] And one explains, one is Furiosa,

[00:10:21] this film. And one explains

[00:10:23] Max's journey to Fury Road.

[00:10:25] This and Furiosa and Fury Road

[00:10:27] were written like completely simultaneously.

[00:10:29] I'm saying, but there's a third one, right?

[00:10:31] Right, but that was written later?

[00:10:33] So what happened is, you know,

[00:10:35] they wrote Fury Road via storyboards

[00:10:37] in the late 90s, early aughts,

[00:10:39] and they tried to make it with

[00:10:41] Mel Gibson in 2002.

[00:10:43] And when that fell apart,

[00:10:45] you know, a lot of

[00:10:47] normal people would have moved on, but George Miller

[00:10:49] is not normal. And he said, I will still make

[00:10:51] this, but in the intervening years,

[00:10:53] why don't we drill down on all these

[00:10:55] characters and elements and, you know,

[00:10:57] sort of deepen them and see what we can come up

[00:10:59] with. Right, it was Sigourney Weaver

[00:11:01] was sort of the concept for

[00:11:03] Furiosa, right? In that 2000s,

[00:11:05] you know, Mel Gibson project.

[00:11:07] In some ways, they were looking at

[00:11:09] Uma Thurman, Monica Bellucci,

[00:11:11] people like that.

[00:11:13] But yeah, so him and Nico Lathouris,

[00:11:15] his co-writer, they

[00:11:17] wrote this Furiosa backstory

[00:11:19] as a screenplay, and they

[00:11:21] wrote a novella about what

[00:11:23] Max is up to in the year before

[00:11:25] Fury Road, which

[00:11:27] is the thing that they've been teasing on this press tour

[00:11:29] that if they would return to it, they would make.

[00:11:31] So they have no notion

[00:11:33] for what's after

[00:11:35] Mad Max Fury Road. No, I don't think

[00:11:37] they're even thinking about after, which is wild.

[00:11:39] But there's seeds

[00:11:41] of what that Max story

[00:11:43] would be in Fury Road.

[00:11:45] Like, keep seeing these visions that Max

[00:11:47] has of this child who's sort of speaking

[00:11:49] to him. That's a child that he tries

[00:11:51] to save in his, you know,

[00:11:53] in his backstory. Right, right.

[00:11:55] That's that sort of thing. So I

[00:11:57] said this, I think when we did our

[00:11:59] Fury Road episode. I have no memory

[00:12:01] of that episode. I don't either.

[00:12:03] Not saying it negatively.

[00:12:05] That has always been my understanding that like Fury

[00:12:07] Road was the big thing. And in the

[00:12:09] 20 year journey plus

[00:12:11] to get Fury Road off the ground while

[00:12:13] this thing was on the burner, he

[00:12:15] kept on being like, well, let's flesh out this other

[00:12:17] stuff. Let's flesh out this other stuff to the

[00:12:19] point where when Fury Road was close to happening

[00:12:21] Furiosa existed as like a

[00:12:23] fully thought out movie. It

[00:12:25] started as sort of like, let's dig into

[00:12:27] what we need to know about this character for

[00:12:29] ourselves and then becomes

[00:12:31] like a thing that's ready to go.

[00:12:33] I was doing the oft referenced

[00:12:35] wildly successful movie

[00:12:37] Beware the Gonzo.

[00:12:39] The nightmare teen comedy in which I

[00:12:41] played Horny Rob. You played Horny

[00:12:43] Rob Becker, but Zoe Kravitz is in that film.

[00:12:45] Played EZE, I want to say.

[00:12:47] Evie Wallace is how she's credited.

[00:12:49] But maybe EZE. Right. Yeah.

[00:12:51] And she

[00:12:53] in the middle of filming took a meeting

[00:12:55] with him. With George Miller.

[00:12:57] Yes. This is five years, I

[00:12:59] think before the film actually starts filming

[00:13:01] possibly. So Beware the Gonzo came out in 2010.

[00:13:03] Did you maybe shoot it in

[00:13:05] 2009? We shot in 2009.

[00:13:07] So it's at least three years before

[00:13:09] it starts filming. Six

[00:13:11] years before the movie comes out. Sure.

[00:13:13] And she was saying. I think they were

[00:13:15] like location scouting for, you know,

[00:13:17] a version of that movie that didn't happen.

[00:13:19] This was. It got pushed. Yes.

[00:13:21] That's the thing. She ends up

[00:13:23] off of this meeting getting the role

[00:13:25] and then within the movie waits

[00:13:27] two years for

[00:13:29] because of weather. Toast to the knowing. Right.

[00:13:31] But I remember her and I being

[00:13:33] in a waiting room together

[00:13:35] while other people were filming and her

[00:13:37] telling me about the meeting, me losing my

[00:13:39] fucking mind and her being like he doesn't

[00:13:41] have a script. He has like 800 pages

[00:13:43] of storyboards and

[00:13:45] it's two movies. And I was

[00:13:47] like, he's going to shoot both of them.

[00:13:49] And she was like, it's really unclear.

[00:13:51] There's this feeling of like,

[00:13:53] is he going to shoot one before the other? Is he

[00:13:55] going to shoot him simultaneously? Is he going to shoot

[00:13:57] one and hope that they give him the money for two?

[00:13:59] There was this sense, at least in how

[00:14:01] she was explaining to me and you obviously talked

[00:14:03] to a billion people around

[00:14:05] this of like a bit of a coin toss.

[00:14:07] Even though the thing started with Fury

[00:14:09] Road about how do we

[00:14:11] make this? The thing that was sort of surprising

[00:14:13] was that once Fury Road happened,

[00:14:15] he decided to double back to

[00:14:17] Furiosa. Yeah. For

[00:14:19] a little while there was also

[00:14:21] a plan to do Furiosa

[00:14:23] as an anime. That's pretty. And they got

[00:14:25] pretty far down that track. You know,

[00:14:27] they had a director, Mihiro Maeda

[00:14:29] and they as

[00:14:31] George was getting sort of waylaid

[00:14:33] with Fury Road, the anime

[00:14:35] crew was making

[00:14:37] significant progress to the point

[00:14:39] where it just got too far down

[00:14:41] the road without George's

[00:14:43] overseeing. And

[00:14:45] he was like, I can't have this come out

[00:14:47] years before Fury Road. This is when he's in like

[00:14:49] Happy Feet Land. Yeah.

[00:14:51] That's when he's mired in Happy Feet Land.

[00:14:53] He's with the prawns.

[00:14:55] Wait, what are they? Shrimp?

[00:14:57] What are they? They're krill.

[00:14:59] Krill. Of course. They're gay krill.

[00:15:01] Will and Brill krill.

[00:15:03] Will and Bill. Have you seen Happy Feet 2?

[00:15:05] Yes, I have. It's a good movie.

[00:15:07] It's key queer cinema. Which

[00:15:09] again was a movie that he originally

[00:15:11] planned to shoot alongside

[00:15:13] Fury Road. George loves

[00:15:15] for as not

[00:15:17] prolific as he is, he always

[00:15:19] wants to be making two movies at the same

[00:15:21] time. His dream.

[00:15:23] Which is crazy since each

[00:15:25] one of these movies is so all

[00:15:27] encompassing that you wouldn't have time to

[00:15:29] do anything. Like Spielberg does that.

[00:15:31] But even Spielberg is like

[00:15:33] when, you know, that was crazy.

[00:15:35] It's not like Spielberg's like I had a

[00:15:37] really easy time doing those movies

[00:15:39] back to back or next to each other or whatever.

[00:15:41] Spielberg can shoot a movie really fast

[00:15:43] to not go months

[00:15:45] over. Right. He comes

[00:15:47] in under. George Miller. Right.

[00:15:49] No, not at all. I mean, that's built

[00:15:51] in. You've got to expect that from George Miller.

[00:15:53] But right. Exactly. Spielberg has

[00:15:55] this well-earned at this point reputation

[00:15:57] for being the guy who just walks in the room and knows

[00:15:59] how everything's supposed to look and where the camera should

[00:16:01] go. And Miller, you know

[00:16:03] better than I, has this reputation for

[00:16:05] like, wait, what if we did this? And they're

[00:16:07] like, well, that would be an enormous

[00:16:09] enormous scale engineering

[00:16:11] project. And he's like, yeah, but what if

[00:16:13] we did that? And then you have to do it.

[00:16:15] Right? Like in the

[00:16:17] middle of a planned production.

[00:16:19] And then Tom Hardy's like, I don't want to come out of my

[00:16:21] trailer. Well, that at least they didn't

[00:16:23] have to deal with that this time because that was

[00:16:25] a large part of why Fury

[00:16:27] Road went on for as long as it did. Right.

[00:16:29] So you okay. So Kyle, you saw

[00:16:31] Mad Max Fury Road in 2015 like

[00:16:33] the rest of us and you probably thought it

[00:16:35] was pretty cool. Yeah, I did.

[00:16:37] Yeah, I saw it at a press screening

[00:16:39] in Century City and it

[00:16:41] totally blew my mind, like literally felt my jaw

[00:16:43] dropping was like hooting and hollering

[00:16:45] at the things I saw. And

[00:16:47] actually the Q&A afterwards was

[00:16:49] moderated by Edgar Wright

[00:16:51] who recommended

[00:16:53] Anya Taylor-Joy for Fury. Yeah.

[00:16:55] Oh, that's interesting. Right. Because he worked with her on Soho?

[00:16:57] Yeah. Okay. But then yeah,

[00:16:59] so when did it come together for you to write

[00:17:01] this gigantic oral history? Did

[00:17:03] you write the Times article

[00:17:05] first and that was

[00:17:07] sort of your proof of concept?

[00:17:09] Yeah, I fell ass backward into it.

[00:17:11] Yeah, it was I wrote the

[00:17:13] the oral history

[00:17:15] of Fury Road for the Times

[00:17:17] in, I started working on it in April

[00:17:19] 2020

[00:17:21] April

[00:17:23] When did the pandemic happen?

[00:17:25] This article published May

[00:17:27] 2020. Right.

[00:17:29] Yeah. Wow. My brain is scrambled.

[00:17:31] I just got back from two weeks

[00:17:33] abroad. But

[00:17:35] yeah, so in April 2020

[00:17:37] when you know the movie release calendar

[00:17:39] just fell apart. Right. It was like what the fuck

[00:17:41] do we do? My job is covering new movies.

[00:17:43] I thought, well, what am I going to write about?

[00:17:45] I still have to make a living. And I knew that it was

[00:17:47] about to be at that point

[00:17:49] the five year anniversary of Fury Road

[00:17:51] coming out. And I had interviewed

[00:17:53] a lot of them when it did come out

[00:17:55] and they'd all sort of alluded

[00:17:57] to, you know,

[00:17:59] the contentious making of it. But there's

[00:18:01] so much that they couldn't really say at

[00:18:03] that time. And I had heard stories

[00:18:05] over the years. And I

[00:18:07] interviewed Charlize a bunch

[00:18:09] for other movies and we had a good

[00:18:11] sort of interviewer interviewee relationship.

[00:18:13] So I just thought, well, why don't I

[00:18:15] try to pull together a little oral history here?

[00:18:17] And of course, also I was obsessed with the movie.

[00:18:19] Watched it a million times. It also feels like

[00:18:21] I mean now maybe it's

[00:18:23] less bizarre, but like in a lot of cases

[00:18:25] you'd be like five year.

[00:18:27] That's a little premature. Right.

[00:18:29] Right. And I get that and I'm also

[00:18:31] was facing that like people said that when it

[00:18:33] came out like five years be real. But

[00:18:35] it proved to be exactly the sweet

[00:18:37] spot for... Yes. Everyone still remembers.

[00:18:39] Yes. Right. Yes. For these

[00:18:41] stories to feel still very vivid,

[00:18:43] but enough time had passed that people

[00:18:45] felt like they could speak freely. I also

[00:18:47] don't... I recommend it five year

[00:18:49] five years is just enough

[00:18:51] time to really get people

[00:18:53] to open up. I think you nailed

[00:18:55] it and speaks to how quickly

[00:18:57] the reputation of this movie was like

[00:18:59] completely solidified.

[00:19:01] By the time the book comes out, no one's

[00:19:03] questioning it. No one's like this is

[00:19:05] staring back to recently. Also

[00:19:07] it is one of those movies that when you watch

[00:19:09] it, you immediately have so many questions

[00:19:11] for how on earth was it made

[00:19:13] and what on earth is going

[00:19:15] on beneath the surface of it as a story.

[00:19:17] Because I remember the first

[00:19:19] time I saw Mad Max Fury Road, which was with you

[00:19:21] Griffin Newman and it is famously where we

[00:19:23] you pitched me the idea of calling the show blank check.

[00:19:25] I show up to the screening. We were already doing the show.

[00:19:27] We were doing the Star Wars version of

[00:19:29] the podcast. I show up to

[00:19:31] the screening covered in hives. I said, I don't

[00:19:33] know what's wrong with me. My body won't stop itching, but

[00:19:35] I think I finally cracked what the podcast

[00:19:37] is. Because obviously this movie, Fury

[00:19:39] Road was this example of like, oh,

[00:19:41] like here is a director weirdly

[00:19:43] getting a blank check. But I pitched it before

[00:19:45] we saw the movie and then walking out.

[00:19:47] We had some idea. Oh totally. And then walking

[00:19:49] out, it's like he fucking nailed it. Right.

[00:19:51] This is, the podcast is like, what if they pull

[00:19:53] it off? But the first

[00:19:55] time you see this movie, it throws so

[00:19:57] much at you with no explanation,

[00:19:59] which I love. And we, I'm

[00:20:01] sure talk about that on our Fury Road episode,

[00:20:03] right? They don't, they're not like,

[00:20:05] there's not some dialogue of like, well,

[00:20:07] we all know this about war boys. It is

[00:20:09] the magic of this movie where the first time I

[00:20:11] watched it, I was like, I probably understand

[00:20:13] 10% of what he's trying

[00:20:15] to convey to me. I probably understand 10% of what they're

[00:20:17] saying. Yeah. Like. But like

[00:20:19] you can follow it on

[00:20:21] an action level on like

[00:20:23] just immediate objective. And

[00:20:25] then every time I watch it after that, I'm

[00:20:27] like, I got another 20% of it, you

[00:20:29] know? And I keep thinking like,

[00:20:31] oh, now I'm at 100%. And then I'll

[00:20:33] watch it again and be like, there was another 20%

[00:20:35] I didn't realize

[00:20:37] was there. So what was it like? Right.

[00:20:39] Kyle, that was my question. Like talk

[00:20:41] now you're sitting down with everyone. You're talking about

[00:20:43] it. What are you gleaning beyond

[00:20:45] that? It was insane to make in the Tom Hardy

[00:20:47] to like sit in his trailer sometimes.

[00:20:49] Sure. Sure. Yeah. I mean like, yes, you

[00:20:51] glean all the juicy stuff about the making

[00:20:53] of the movie and it is juicy

[00:20:55] in the sense that, you know, I think this

[00:20:57] has got to be one of the craziest movie

[00:20:59] productions there ever was.

[00:21:01] But then also you really do

[00:21:03] get to know what's beneath the surface

[00:21:05] of literally everything. What's

[00:21:07] beneath the surface of every prop, the guiding

[00:21:09] philosophy that animates

[00:21:11] even the smallest

[00:21:13] performances, you know?

[00:21:15] Them putting the war boys through

[00:21:17] this sort of, these war boy

[00:21:19] classes that were almost cult-like

[00:21:21] where these characters could

[00:21:23] take ownership of the, these actors

[00:21:25] these stuntmen could take ownership

[00:21:27] of their characters in a way that was really unusual.

[00:21:29] I think that's part of the reason

[00:21:31] that Fury Road felt

[00:21:33] like there was so much going on

[00:21:35] in the margins of the film that wasn't being

[00:21:37] touched on but that you could feel

[00:21:39] because absolutely every element of it

[00:21:41] was imbued with so much thought

[00:21:43] and that was helped by the

[00:21:45] fact that it took so long to make

[00:21:47] and that during those hiatuses

[00:21:49] you know, everybody would just

[00:21:51] continue drilling down on

[00:21:53] what does this mean? Why are we drawn to this?

[00:21:55] Like, you know, what are the underpinnings

[00:21:57] of all of these ideas? And you can

[00:21:59] feel that in the movie.

[00:22:01] Now the exact thing you're saying is what makes

[00:22:03] the existence of Furiosa colon a

[00:22:05] Mad Max saga very weird

[00:22:07] right? Because the

[00:22:09] cornerstone of this franchise, the movies

[00:22:11] really are all stand-alone

[00:22:13] and he basically

[00:22:15] abhors explaining anything

[00:22:17] in any sort of literal

[00:22:19] expository way.

[00:22:21] You know, he is one of the most

[00:22:23] hyper-visual filmmakers

[00:22:25] it's not just because he creates amazing

[00:22:27] visuals, but Sean Fennessey

[00:22:29] on Big Picture last week

[00:22:31] basically said George Miller

[00:22:33] basically makes

[00:22:35] the world's loudest silent films

[00:22:37] like that is what he does.

[00:22:39] He loves being able to convey things

[00:22:41] whether it's like deep lore

[00:22:43] or just the immediate stakes of a beat

[00:22:45] through visuals. So to

[00:22:47] like stop and slow down and basically

[00:22:49] being like I'm going to do a U-turn

[00:22:51] and explain this shit in a whole movie

[00:22:53] is bizarre

[00:22:55] for him. It's like out of character

[00:22:57] and I also think there

[00:22:59] is a very clear analog to like

[00:23:01] Star Wars

[00:23:03] the original Star Wars where George

[00:23:05] Lucas writes this movie that's like

[00:23:07] supposed to be three acts chronicling

[00:23:09] three generations of the Skywalker

[00:23:11] family and everyone's like

[00:23:13] middle act. The middle act, the

[00:23:15] Luke thing, that's a fucking movie that people

[00:23:17] can lock into. Throw out

[00:23:19] this other shit. And he

[00:23:21] makes the first Star Wars with all this

[00:23:23] shit in his head that he developed

[00:23:25] that he's able to sort of allude to

[00:23:27] that gives it this weight of like

[00:23:29] holy shit what is this

[00:23:31] unexplored history that he clearly has

[00:23:33] answers for that he's not telling me.

[00:23:35] In most cases, the

[00:23:37] kind of thing you're talking about leads

[00:23:39] to like calamitous movies

[00:23:41] that are totally incoherent.

[00:23:43] I'm not saying it's at this level

[00:23:45] but did you see Megalopolis again?

[00:23:47] Yes I did.

[00:23:49] So I feel like the response to

[00:23:51] Megalopolis is the kind of response

[00:23:53] I would almost say it's the best

[00:23:55] case response to a movie like Fury

[00:23:57] Road where some people are

[00:23:59] defending it but everyone's

[00:24:01] basically like look this guy spent so

[00:24:03] many decades in his head just

[00:24:05] obsessing over this thing that

[00:24:07] like he might have lost sight, he might

[00:24:09] have lost perspective. Some of this is just

[00:24:11] kind of like imperceptible.

[00:24:13] Yes, I would

[00:24:15] agree with that interpretation.

[00:24:17] I do think that

[00:24:19] I would

[00:24:21] say that a distinct difference having

[00:24:23] watched obviously Fury Road but also

[00:24:25] Megalopolis is that

[00:24:27] in the intervening years of

[00:24:29] you know however long it took

[00:24:31] to make Fury Road, Miller kept drilling

[00:24:33] down on like why did he want to make it?

[00:24:35] What is he responding to? Let's make

[00:24:37] sure that he knows every element of this

[00:24:39] world. There's something that remained very disciplined

[00:24:41] and focused in his obsession over this movie.

[00:24:43] You do get the sense watching Megalopolis

[00:24:45] that Coppola was drawn

[00:24:47] to this idea

[00:24:49] but then upon getting to set

[00:24:51] did not know

[00:24:53] why or how these scenes

[00:24:55] should work or what the animating

[00:24:57] ideas underpinning

[00:24:59] this whole thing are.

[00:25:01] So everyone is just flailing around.

[00:25:03] I also think Coppola

[00:25:05] for decades, it's not like just right

[00:25:07] now, has been interested in like how can I

[00:25:09] flout and mess with

[00:25:11] like the rules of cinema

[00:25:13] storytelling. Right. And

[00:25:15] has come at that in different ways.

[00:25:17] But even Dracula, like even movies of his

[00:25:19] that were commercial, those movies

[00:25:21] are doing things that you're like well this is

[00:25:23] you know this is not really done.

[00:25:25] But it is interesting to me. And it sounds like Megalopolis

[00:25:27] is doing many things that are not really done.

[00:25:29] How many people walked into Megalopolis

[00:25:31] seemingly assuming it was gonna

[00:25:33] be apocalypse now level of

[00:25:35] experimentation ignoring

[00:25:37] the last three movies where it's like this guy

[00:25:39] doesn't give a fuck. Yeah. Honestly,

[00:25:41] I don't think people saw those last three.

[00:25:43] They know. Those movies are art films.

[00:25:45] I mean he reached

[00:25:47] an experimental phase that was not entirely

[00:25:49] successful. And this movie

[00:25:51] is that writ large. There were

[00:25:53] a lot of top tier critics

[00:25:55] who gave it favorable reviews.

[00:25:57] And I

[00:25:59] personally feel they're

[00:26:01] more reviewing the idea of

[00:26:03] the movie than the reality of the movie.

[00:26:05] Not to like besmirch anybody's

[00:26:07] take because movies are subjective.

[00:26:09] But yes, the idea of the movie if I

[00:26:11] described to you things that happen

[00:26:13] in this movie, you would be like

[00:26:15] I've got to see that. But the reality

[00:26:17] of watching it with truly dire

[00:26:19] stiff dialogue or flop

[00:26:21] sweaty improv is

[00:26:23] a whole other thing. There's also Megalopolis

[00:26:25] is the most the idea of a

[00:26:27] movie movie ever made. Like just the

[00:26:29] everything around it is so

[00:26:31] especially right now woven into it.

[00:26:33] I think you hit on something very

[00:26:35] important though, which is often these

[00:26:37] like when a passion project

[00:26:39] is decades on the

[00:26:41] runway. Right? You're like

[00:26:43] how do these guys not become Ahab

[00:26:45] to quote Kevin Costner

[00:26:47] right? How do you not just become

[00:26:49] so obsessed with the hunt of the whale

[00:26:51] the whale becoming an idea

[00:26:53] that you don't even really know why you

[00:26:55] got into this in the first place. And I think

[00:26:57] that then falls apart when you get into the macro

[00:26:59] level of filmmaking of actually like

[00:27:01] cracking each scene on its own

[00:27:03] because these guys are coming to set being

[00:27:05] like over the last 20 plus

[00:27:07] years. I have a different points been

[00:27:09] trying to make eight different versions of this

[00:27:11] movie whether the versions are wildly

[00:27:13] different from each other or different only in

[00:27:15] cast or time period technology.

[00:27:17] How do you adjust that?

[00:27:19] And then they have a hard time making the movie that's

[00:27:21] in front of them and Fury Road

[00:27:23] is like the ultimate

[00:27:25] exception to the rule

[00:27:27] and to have it like not only work

[00:27:29] but work as commercial

[00:27:31] cinema to have it be like

[00:27:33] Oscar beloved when it's

[00:27:35] the fourth Mad Max

[00:27:37] movie a franchise that was ignored

[00:27:39] by Oscars like everything about it

[00:27:41] defies logic. It's a strange thing.

[00:27:43] Which then when he announces I'm

[00:27:45] going to do this I'm going to make the movie of

[00:27:47] all the work I did basically

[00:27:49] to make Fury Road

[00:27:51] work you're like to some

[00:27:53] degree he's doing the Cimmerillion

[00:27:55] like isn't the major accomplishment

[00:27:57] of Fury Road that everything

[00:27:59] you did in figuring out who Furiosa

[00:28:01] was somehow seeps into the DNA

[00:28:03] of this movie and gives it weight

[00:28:05] and power do we really need it explained

[00:28:07] that has been my attitude

[00:28:09] to this movie incoming for

[00:28:11] years but then the second

[00:28:13] feeling I had that

[00:28:15] trumped that was like this guy just

[00:28:17] painted the Sistine Chapel. Yes. Did you

[00:28:19] hear they're giving him a new church?

[00:28:21] Right. I'm not really

[00:28:23] I don't care what his angle is

[00:28:25] on how he's going to paint this one. I want to

[00:28:27] see how he paints the new church ceiling. I agree

[00:28:29] and also he's a guy who's made this is not a sequel

[00:28:31] to prequel but you know who has made follow up

[00:28:33] films that are always interesting

[00:28:35] now here's a weird thread

[00:28:37] the three times

[00:28:39] let's ignore the Mad Max

[00:28:41] franchise because as we said those films

[00:28:43] are largely standalone right

[00:28:45] let's go Happy Feet 2, Babe Pig

[00:28:47] in the City, Furiosa

[00:28:49] all three the first one beloved

[00:28:51] by Oscars big hit

[00:28:53] critically beloved

[00:28:55] second movie people are like I don't know

[00:28:57] I don't know. Right. Furiosa

[00:28:59] is having the most positive

[00:29:01] response of those three but it is

[00:29:03] still funny that all three times he has

[00:29:05] tried to make a more direct sequel

[00:29:07] people

[00:29:09] have been like oh geez wait

[00:29:11] each time he makes it darker

[00:29:13] and weirder. Darker and weirder

[00:29:15] and shaggier. And more alienating

[00:29:17] and also in all three cases

[00:29:19] they become like weird

[00:29:21] fables about the nature of

[00:29:23] storytelling. A little bit of that. That are

[00:29:25] far more heightened

[00:29:27] Yes. I also think

[00:29:29] Fury Road is the most

[00:29:31] primordially satisfying

[00:29:33] film. Obviously

[00:29:35] Pedal to the Metal has been discussed to death

[00:29:37] it's you can jump

[00:29:39] right into it they're driving

[00:29:41] it's the craziest thing you've ever seen

[00:29:43] the ending you're like I hope they kill a Morton

[00:29:45] Joe they rip his face off and he dies

[00:29:47] and even the first. You're like yes

[00:29:49] he's dead. The first trailer comes out

[00:29:51] you're like nothing I've ever seen

[00:29:53] before. I cannot imagine this. We're recording

[00:29:55] this in the immediate wake of

[00:29:57] Furious's surprising

[00:29:59] underperformance at the box office. Right

[00:30:01] one of those surprising where you're like wait should I be

[00:30:03] surprised but

[00:30:05] whatever we can talk about that later. I think for

[00:30:07] months everyone's attitude was like everyone

[00:30:09] loves Fury Road aren't they going to fucking

[00:30:11] line up for this and there was

[00:30:13] you in retrospect you

[00:30:15] go like from the moment the first trailer came

[00:30:17] out people being like why does it look weird

[00:30:19] what is this story do I

[00:30:21] care about this versus Fury Road I think

[00:30:23] I walked out of I saw a second

[00:30:25] time last night and there was a guy

[00:30:27] walking out of the theater who was like I was a little

[00:30:29] lost because I like haven't seen the first

[00:30:31] one and he kept on talking

[00:30:33] about the first one right

[00:30:35] and I realized he was referencing

[00:30:37] Fury Road. Of course he doesn't know the other ones

[00:30:39] right but everyone who

[00:30:41] walked out of Fury Road I never once

[00:30:43] and I saw Fury Road four times at theaters five

[00:30:45] I never once heard someone walking

[00:30:47] out and going I was a little lost because I hadn't

[00:30:49] seen the first three and I in fact think

[00:30:51] the majority of people who saw Fury Road

[00:30:53] in theaters had not seen the first three

[00:30:55] yes I agree I

[00:30:57] talk to people all the time who love Fury Road who

[00:30:59] have not watched another Mad Max

[00:31:01] movie yeah majority people probably

[00:31:03] had not seen any Mad Max's

[00:31:05] maybe a good chunk of people probably seen

[00:31:07] Mad Max 2 the road warrior seen

[00:31:09] one of them on TV or Thunder

[00:31:11] Dome right maybe right because like those were

[00:31:13] movies but they were cult

[00:31:15] action films yeah even as

[00:31:17] they became like were you a bit

[00:31:19] Mad Max guy Kyle like

[00:31:21] growing up I'd seen

[00:31:23] Thunder Dome probably

[00:31:25] more than any of them because it's kind

[00:31:27] of the most kid friendly oh exactly

[00:31:29] I feel like he was probably on cable the most

[00:31:31] and scraps of Road Warrior which like

[00:31:33] then as I got older like I could actually

[00:31:35] legitimately watch yes

[00:31:37] I had really just seen them all

[00:31:39] like once or twice yeah

[00:31:41] anyway okay Griffin

[00:31:44] Griffin shut up for a second because I

[00:31:46] need to tell you about a special thing

[00:31:48] that only I know about now

[00:31:50] you know this this episode is brought to you by

[00:31:52] Mubi a curated streaming service

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[00:32:14] you can catch gasoline rainbow which is the

[00:32:16] new film from the Ross Brothers

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[00:32:38] it's about this group of teenagers

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[00:33:52] Furiosa Kyle what do you think of Furiosa

[00:33:54] we're here to talk about Furiosa

[00:33:56] this is a complicated

[00:33:58] question no it's a simple question but maybe

[00:34:00] a complicated answer because

[00:34:02] I do think that almost

[00:34:04] anyone watching Furiosa

[00:34:06] there's no way you don't

[00:34:08] constantly compare every element

[00:34:10] of it to Fury Road

[00:34:12] which as stated before

[00:34:14] a perfect fucking movie

[00:34:16] so I think that the first time I

[00:34:18] saw it and I should preface this by saying

[00:34:20] like literally anytime you have George Miller

[00:34:22] making a movie it's

[00:34:24] worthy like there's so many

[00:34:26] incredible elements in it and

[00:34:28] there's so much more thought and craft

[00:34:30] than you know most any other action film

[00:34:32] so this is

[00:34:34] we're starting there

[00:34:36] but I think that the very first time

[00:34:38] I watched it I had a more complicated

[00:34:40] reaction to it than I thought

[00:34:42] I didn't have like a 100%

[00:34:44] you weren't just shooting a gun at me

[00:34:46] exhilarated reaction but also I was

[00:34:48] comparing it to the high water mark of

[00:34:50] walking out of Fury Road for the first time

[00:34:52] and like Griffin said feeling like I've never

[00:34:54] seen a movie like that

[00:34:56] this can't hope to

[00:34:58] give you that feeling because even

[00:35:00] at its best it's reminding you of

[00:35:02] Fury Road so it's not going

[00:35:04] to feel like a bolt of

[00:35:06] out of the blue. Then I watched it a second

[00:35:08] time in Cannes and I do feel like

[00:35:10] I had a much more favorable

[00:35:12] reaction then because

[00:35:14] I could evaluate the movie

[00:35:16] for what it is rather than

[00:35:18] the weight of

[00:35:20] expectations of you

[00:35:22] know and comparisons

[00:35:24] to Fury Road but I think

[00:35:26] it's a fascinating movie no matter

[00:35:28] what I think it's ungainly

[00:35:30] that's not always a debit but sometimes

[00:35:32] it is. There's

[00:35:34] just so much there there and I'm really excited

[00:35:36] to honestly even be doing

[00:35:38] this podcast so I can sort through all my feelings

[00:35:40] on it. I'm definitely still processing

[00:35:42] a couple things I mean it's like

[00:35:44] if this movie

[00:35:46] exists in any other context

[00:35:48] I walk out of the theater like hooting

[00:35:50] and hollering and telling everyone I know

[00:35:52] this is the greatest shit I've ever seen

[00:35:54] you gotta go see this thing. If this

[00:35:56] comes out before Fury Road

[00:35:58] and I'm like holy shit

[00:36:00] George Miller has returned to Mad Max

[00:36:02] after decades away and you

[00:36:04] won't believe the way this thing fucking looks

[00:36:06] It's sort of amazing to consider that right

[00:36:08] if he was introducing you to like

[00:36:10] Immortan Joe and all this stuff

[00:36:12] for the first time. And then I'm like and then the next

[00:36:14] one is gonna be fucking Tom Hardy as

[00:36:16] Mad Max and Charlize as grown up

[00:36:18] I'm going insane

[00:36:20] right like imagine the universe in which

[00:36:22] he makes them at the same time or whatever

[00:36:24] if this movie was a totally

[00:36:26] standalone thing if this was

[00:36:28] made by any new filmmaker

[00:36:30] I'd just be like losing my

[00:36:32] fucking mind and

[00:36:34] I walk out and I'm like this thing is somewhere between

[00:36:36] a 7.5 and an 8

[00:36:38] I like

[00:36:40] it a tremendous amount

[00:36:42] it is stuck under the permanent

[00:36:44] shadow of Fury Road I think the

[00:36:46] single biggest mistake this movie makes

[00:36:48] is the end credit sequence

[00:36:50] showing you the fucking footage

[00:36:52] from Fury Road which I'm like

[00:36:54] ending the film feeling pretty good

[00:36:56] both times and then the second you show

[00:36:58] me Fury Road footage I'm like

[00:37:00] Fury Road does kind of rip at a whole different

[00:37:02] level doesn't it? That is true

[00:37:04] Fury Road

[00:37:06] the putting of Fury Road in the credits

[00:37:08] I almost wondered if it was a studio note

[00:37:10] although Miller does not seem like

[00:37:12] the one to really leap at studio notes

[00:37:14] I have a read on it

[00:37:16] based on no intel but what

[00:37:18] I now having watched it twice imagine

[00:37:20] this must be what he is

[00:37:22] trying to do there because it feels like such

[00:37:24] a foolish move Fast X

[00:37:26] a movie I abhor

[00:37:28] David and I saw together and I was like this is the

[00:37:30] dumbest way to start a Fast and Furious movie

[00:37:32] is showing me footage from

[00:37:34] Fast Five and now this entire

[00:37:36] film is going to make me conscious

[00:37:38] of and Furiosa

[00:37:40] does the opposite thing in like retrospect

[00:37:42] I think it's because by

[00:37:44] design this movie cannot have a win

[00:37:46] or catharsis. Right.

[00:37:48] And so he's putting that at the end credits

[00:37:50] to remind you it does happen

[00:37:52] you just are watching it in the wrong order

[00:37:54] but that in and of itself is kind

[00:37:56] of a boondoggle. No I think it's a mistake

[00:37:58] it's bad but I the first time

[00:38:00] I'm like why would he ever do

[00:38:02] this? Sure. And I do think

[00:38:04] that has to be the narrative reasoning

[00:38:06] Like essentially

[00:38:08] when you were describing earlier

[00:38:10] what would it be like if I just saw this as a

[00:38:12] standalone film you know prior to Fury

[00:38:14] Road I do think it would have to

[00:38:16] be configured differently because

[00:38:18] there is

[00:38:20] to reduce things to like the most base state

[00:38:22] there is a win condition that

[00:38:24] is set up for Furiosa

[00:38:26] in this movie which is escape

[00:38:28] and return to the green place which

[00:38:30] she does not do by the end of

[00:38:32] the film. So essentially

[00:38:34] that coda showing

[00:38:36] footage from Fury Road

[00:38:38] is a substitution for

[00:38:40] like literally the main thing the movie

[00:38:42] is promising now of course if you've seen

[00:38:44] Fury Road you know she doesn't escape

[00:38:46] and return to the green place in this which

[00:38:48] maybe you know

[00:38:50] something that reduces

[00:38:52] the imperative

[00:38:54] to watch this film for some

[00:38:56] people. You know the trailer

[00:38:58] at least the second trailer which is trying to sell

[00:39:00] an idea of Furiosa's

[00:39:02] quest is selling

[00:39:04] the idea of like

[00:39:06] I want to get away I want to get to the green place

[00:39:08] give me back the things you stole

[00:39:10] but we know she doesn't get those

[00:39:12] so that is tricky for

[00:39:14] you know the average movie

[00:39:16] goer who's like well but I need

[00:39:18] a quest I can believe in that I feel like

[00:39:20] can be seen to fruition. Obviously

[00:39:22] you get that from Fury Road but you do not

[00:39:24] get it within the framework of

[00:39:26] Furiosa Mad Max Saga

[00:39:28] But like you say in

[00:39:30] Fury Road you're getting emotional catharsis

[00:39:32] and of course they do rip and Morten Dure's face

[00:39:34] off which rocks.

[00:39:36] Yeah but obviously

[00:39:38] right she does not find the green place really

[00:39:40] it is gone right you know

[00:39:42] there's tragedy to that like

[00:39:44] and we're watching Furiosa if you're

[00:39:46] Fury Road head you're like this sucks I

[00:39:48] know she'll never get back here.

[00:39:50] On the other hand I think the end

[00:39:52] of Fury Road is so

[00:39:54] emotional and resonant. Of course.

[00:39:56] She's figured out

[00:39:58] you know yes but also

[00:40:00] Furiosa is about like revenge is a

[00:40:02] bottomless pit that will never satisfy you. That is what's interesting

[00:40:04] about it. Which is totally interesting

[00:40:06] to me as a movie's

[00:40:08] theme and ending

[00:40:10] just not as triumphant

[00:40:12] but I don't

[00:40:14] I can go watch Fury Road if I

[00:40:16] need more straightforward triumphantness.

[00:40:18] That ending is incredible before it gets to the

[00:40:20] fucking Fury Road supercut

[00:40:22] but I did in real time

[00:40:24] while watching it go like this

[00:40:26] is kind of doing the same fucking

[00:40:28] Matrix Resurrections thing that piss

[00:40:30] people off. It is sort of like

[00:40:32] interrogating to some degree

[00:40:34] because Mad Max the first one comes

[00:40:36] out of George Miller just being

[00:40:38] like can I build like

[00:40:40] a revenge dramatic cranked up to

[00:40:42] the nth degree and

[00:40:44] part of the whole fasting DNA of Mad

[00:40:46] Max is like the sort of post apocalyptic

[00:40:48] stuff which is only at the very

[00:40:50] corners of a society that's beginning to

[00:40:52] collapse in the first Mad Max

[00:40:54] it is not at the forefront

[00:40:56] comes out of him being like

[00:40:58] I can't afford to build a movie

[00:41:00] with a real world

[00:41:02] with a real sense of scope or scale

[00:41:04] but I can make the movie in a sort of

[00:41:06] tilted sideways world I can make

[00:41:08] the barrenness of it part of the point all

[00:41:10] that sort of shit and then Road Warrior

[00:41:12] he obviously like synthesizes

[00:41:14] it to the perfect degree that he just

[00:41:16] then grows on and grows on and grows on

[00:41:18] but the core of it was always like a guy

[00:41:20] who experiences a tragedy so severe

[00:41:22] that the quest for revenge drives

[00:41:24] him mad. He is the titular

[00:41:26] Mad Max because this horrible

[00:41:28] unbelievable thing happened to him and

[00:41:30] all the other Mad Max movies are about

[00:41:32] Max trying to help someone

[00:41:34] save someone right

[00:41:36] it's always these sort of acquired

[00:41:38] sort of like surrogate

[00:41:40] families that he is trying

[00:41:42] to get vengeance

[00:41:44] for, protect

[00:41:46] in some way to like

[00:41:48] overcome the cloud of

[00:41:50] his lost wife and child

[00:41:52] and then this is the first Mad Max movie

[00:41:54] to be like it's meaningless

[00:41:56] it's meaningless and of course it's

[00:41:58] meaningless because Max went through four

[00:42:00] fucking movies never getting resolution

[00:42:02] you could argue that Fury Road does

[00:42:04] resolve the Max arc in a certain way

[00:42:06] because he walks away and is like

[00:42:08] I did good, I helped someone else

[00:42:10] I may be never going to solve myself

[00:42:12] and this is what this movie

[00:42:14] is about similarly that Furiosa

[00:42:16] ultimately realizes like

[00:42:18] I am so past the point of being broken

[00:42:20] when she's yelling at

[00:42:22] Dementus like

[00:42:24] give it back in sort of

[00:42:26] denial of like

[00:42:28] what are you talking about? Give what back?

[00:42:30] Your childhood? Your happiness?

[00:42:32] All of this is gone

[00:42:34] you've turned into like a creature of the wasteland

[00:42:36] there's no coming back and that leads to

[00:42:38] the connection like the pivot

[00:42:40] point of I need to save the breeders

[00:42:42] which then gives us the catharsis

[00:42:44] of the movie after this that is

[00:42:46] a fucking masterpiece but

[00:42:48] the movie does end on this note of her being like

[00:42:50] revenge just drives you insane

[00:42:52] you'll never get what you actually want

[00:42:54] the moment you're seeking it

[00:42:56] you've already lost

[00:42:58] the thing and

[00:43:00] everything he sort of says about like you become

[00:43:02] a creature driven by hate

[00:43:04] this is Furiosa still at a point in her life

[00:43:06] where she can pivot and go

[00:43:08] I will not allow myself to go full Dementus

[00:43:10] even if part of me

[00:43:12] is lost beyond

[00:43:14] recovery

[00:43:16] I need to do something productive for other people

[00:43:18] I do think that that sequence

[00:43:20] with her and Dementus at the end

[00:43:22] is great and I should note also

[00:43:24] that scene that they have

[00:43:26] together is what people

[00:43:28] auditioned with for Fury

[00:43:30] Road because since

[00:43:32] Fury Road doesn't really have a big

[00:43:34] dialogue scene. Right, it doesn't have like a lot of Furiosa

[00:43:36] speaking. Yes, so they would come

[00:43:38] in once they had you know made it through the initial

[00:43:40] auditions they would come in and do that

[00:43:42] so Tom Hardy read

[00:43:44] that with Kat Dennings. Wild

[00:43:46] Zoe Kravitz read that with

[00:43:48] Jeremy Renner and also

[00:43:50] they were just they were described

[00:43:52] in the audition as S and D

[00:43:54] so it's not

[00:43:56] even that Tom was auditioning as

[00:43:58] Furiosa or

[00:44:00] Dementus I mean it could have been either one

[00:44:02] there was no sort of you know

[00:44:04] gender binary to it so

[00:44:06] it's possible that Zoe Kravitz

[00:44:08] played Dementus opposite

[00:44:10] you know Renner as

[00:44:12] Furiosa. Wild. They just were

[00:44:14] auditioning as F and D so yeah

[00:44:16] it's crazy I would love to see that footage

[00:44:18] This movie is so much talkier than any

[00:44:20] Mad Max movie

[00:44:22] You're the talkiest character in any Mad Max movie

[00:44:24] Dementus is so talky

[00:44:26] Dementus alone maybe has more

[00:44:28] dialogue than any other Mad Max

[00:44:30] movie in totality

[00:44:32] Very possible. He's a very

[00:44:34] Shakespearean character. I liked that though

[00:44:36] and that gave him a different

[00:44:38] flavor while still also very much feeling

[00:44:40] of this world. But

[00:44:42] the Matrix Resurrections of it all

[00:44:44] is that same sense of self-reflexiveness

[00:44:46] that I think some people viewed as like

[00:44:48] cynicism but like is

[00:44:50] a bit of self-interrogation

[00:44:52] of like is the entire

[00:44:54] sort of effort

[00:44:56] of these movies foolhardy in its

[00:44:58] very inception and its core

[00:45:00] idea of vengeance

[00:45:02] being a thing that

[00:45:04] can drive you to any sense of accomplishment

[00:45:06] or catharsis or wholeness

[00:45:08] that I you know you can't

[00:45:10] say that that's what stopped people from going

[00:45:12] opening weekend because the trailer is not forecasting

[00:45:14] that. I think what

[00:45:16] stopped people from going opening weekend

[00:45:18] might be more of just sort of like

[00:45:20] prequelitis shit. I think it's

[00:45:22] if we want to do this now

[00:45:24] it is sort of hanging over this movie in a way that's

[00:45:26] annoying and probably won't linger

[00:45:28] too long

[00:45:30] I mean a movie does badly

[00:45:32] at the box office and like Richard Rushfield just

[00:45:34] has to write a column that's basically like

[00:45:36] is this it? Should we lock it all up?

[00:45:38] Right. Like oh shit! You know

[00:45:40] and it's sort of like you know

[00:45:42] guys let's all hold hands the strike

[00:45:44] happened we know there's very little

[00:45:46] like big stuff in 2020 you know

[00:45:48] every week we kind of have to be like guys

[00:45:50] I also think Dune

[00:45:52] Godzilla yeah things were

[00:45:54] over performing. Planet of the Apes all over

[00:45:56] performed if those three movies didn't exist

[00:45:58] and it was like everything's failing

[00:46:00] I believe it a little more

[00:46:02] there is a little bit I think it's more

[00:46:04] of a case by case like I don't

[00:46:06] think we have to do a thorough interrogation

[00:46:08] into why If bombed maybe because it looks

[00:46:10] like dog shit. If didn't even bomb

[00:46:12] like if did fine

[00:46:14] Furiosa? Bombed.

[00:46:16] If. It bombed

[00:46:18] Furiosa's performance seems to be

[00:46:20] bombing but an underrated thing

[00:46:22] that like I don't I literally don't see anyone

[00:46:24] talking about this is that on box

[00:46:26] office tracking for the last two months

[00:46:28] the awareness was painfully

[00:46:30] low. Painfully low

[00:46:32] compared to things like even

[00:46:34] fucking if

[00:46:36] I was looking at the numbers for awareness

[00:46:38] thinking what the fuck's going on

[00:46:40] people don't even know that this movie is coming

[00:46:42] on and thinking well maybe they're

[00:46:44] just doing a late launch and

[00:46:46] I feel like it all just came on way too

[00:46:48] late. They were not hitting female audiences

[00:46:50] where they live so there was very little

[00:46:52] awareness from women

[00:46:54] truly down to the end I don't think there

[00:46:56] was a sense of it's coming out this week

[00:46:58] I think their marketing was cocky

[00:47:00] like their marketing their whole promotion

[00:47:02] for this movie. It was kind of like more Fury Road

[00:47:04] what a glorious day. They just had the attitude of like

[00:47:06] you fucking aren't you thrilled that

[00:47:08] we're giving you more Fury Road? You'll come

[00:47:10] to us. We don't need to sell this to you.

[00:47:12] Doesn't everyone love this movie? Didn't

[00:47:14] Kyle Buchanan write an entire book about

[00:47:16] this? Like it had that energy

[00:47:18] but I do think there's

[00:47:20] a few things. One, I do think as I

[00:47:22] said to you Griff we were talking about this like

[00:47:24] it does feel like movies that are more marketed

[00:47:26] to grown-ups R-rated kind of movies

[00:47:28] this isn't R-rated movies have more

[00:47:30] of a ceiling right now. Young

[00:47:32] people didn't really show up to this movie

[00:47:34] partly probably because they just didn't want

[00:47:36] to. Partly I do get the vibe

[00:47:38] ambiently of just kind of like ah that trailer

[00:47:40] look corny. Like

[00:47:42] what is that? You know like kind of just a

[00:47:44] disinterest. This movie kind of never beat

[00:47:46] the first trailer. The CGI

[00:47:48] looks bad. Yeah I heard a lot of the CGI

[00:47:50] looks bad. There are people who are weird

[00:47:52] cops about CGI. I guess that's always been

[00:47:54] true but it feels even more true now

[00:47:56] of like right I clocked in the CG

[00:47:58] looking bad in the trailer

[00:48:00] so now this is a movie I don't want

[00:48:02] to go to the mat for. I don't really. We're

[00:48:04] talking about people in this vague way.

[00:48:06] Statistically young people did not come to the movie

[00:48:08] right like. But no one came to

[00:48:10] this movie. Australians didn't come to this movie

[00:48:12] it didn't even do well in Australia. Where are the Australians?

[00:48:14] Show up Australians!

[00:48:16] You have to imagine they thought to like

[00:48:18] we're putting Anya Taylor-Joy in this thing

[00:48:20] it's going to go up with younger kids

[00:48:22] Sure but she's no

[00:48:24] Timothee Chalamet. Well that's the thing

[00:48:26] I mean no offense to Anya Taylor-Joy

[00:48:28] Anya's terrific and there's

[00:48:30] very few people that you could

[00:48:32] cast I mean

[00:48:34] the only other one that I heard that they were

[00:48:36] legitimately thinking about was Jodie Comer

[00:48:38] makes a ton of sense

[00:48:40] who's similarly kind of hot right now

[00:48:42] is giving a better thing for this

[00:48:44] movie though Jodie is great

[00:48:46] but it is a tricky thing

[00:48:48] where you know Charlize

[00:48:50] made that role as iconic as it is

[00:48:52] and then she's not a part

[00:48:54] of it anymore. Right

[00:48:56] so if you loved that character

[00:48:58] maybe what you really loved is the performance

[00:49:00] and it just

[00:49:02] I don't know

[00:49:04] that is always the tricky part with a prequel

[00:49:06] that's always the tricky part with a recasting

[00:49:08] I don't doubt that you know

[00:49:10] to continue talking about Fast and Furious

[00:49:12] that after Vin finally hangs it up

[00:49:14] that they will try to do

[00:49:16] some sort of like young Dom

[00:49:18] or something like that

[00:49:20] refashioning of this series

[00:49:22] I'm sure they're rubbing their hands

[00:49:24] thinking we can't

[00:49:26] wait to do something like that

[00:49:28] I hope I'm not betraying anything by saying this

[00:49:30] but you know in F9

[00:49:32] they have the whole young

[00:49:34] Dom section where I like

[00:49:36] valued the fact that they weren't doing fucking

[00:49:38] de-aging and they hired an actor and he doesn't look

[00:49:40] or sound like Vin because no one does

[00:49:42] but they're just like this is young Dom

[00:49:44] and I heard on very

[00:49:46] good authority that the full intention was

[00:49:48] to do young Dom

[00:49:50] sort of side series

[00:49:52] for Peacock

[00:49:54] and it got killed by

[00:49:56] the top people involved

[00:49:58] in the Fast and Furious franchise

[00:50:00] Who thinks that's

[00:50:02] a good idea? The idea

[00:50:04] and Undune is doing it now too

[00:50:06] this is the problem when things

[00:50:08] are owned by gigantic conglomerates

[00:50:10] who are like well we want to fashion this

[00:50:12] world out with streaming and stuff

[00:50:14] that never goes well

[00:50:16] that takes away from the specialness

[00:50:18] of seeing it on the big screen

[00:50:20] like fucking backstory

[00:50:22] limited series absolutely not

[00:50:24] Then this is what everyone is saying

[00:50:26] about a movie like Furiosa

[00:50:28] lots of casual

[00:50:30] fans are like

[00:50:32] I don't care where Furiosa

[00:50:34] came from that's not enough for me to really

[00:50:36] get interested. I think that is the single biggest issue this movie

[00:50:38] is coming up against. But I think the other issue

[00:50:40] is that Mad Max as a franchise

[00:50:42] is a marginal franchise to begin with

[00:50:44] Fury Road did okay

[00:50:46] In people doing yes

[00:50:48] the autopsy of this movie's box office

[00:50:50] like failure they're like

[00:50:52] well if you look at it Fury Road

[00:50:54] bombed and it's like Fury Road didn't bomb

[00:50:56] Fury Road was not

[00:50:58] wildly profitable which is

[00:51:00] a different equation and it

[00:51:02] was successful but it wasn't

[00:51:04] like billion dollar successful which

[00:51:06] tends to be our benchmark

[00:51:08] this thing seems like it's going to do half of that

[00:51:10] but I do think there is that problem

[00:51:12] of do we care where Furiosa

[00:51:14] came from? I go to

[00:51:16] if George Miller wants to make a movie I want

[00:51:18] to see it. That's the thing that's the difference

[00:51:20] whereas like if Comcast

[00:51:22] is like what you want is the backstory

[00:51:24] to Dom Toretto I'm like no I don't

[00:51:26] shut up. But right

[00:51:28] if George Miller wants to make a movie

[00:51:30] I'm interested and he made

[00:51:32] this movie and I think it's very good

[00:51:34] I agree because he tends to make pretty

[00:51:36] good movies and even his

[00:51:38] right the movies he makes that I am less fond

[00:51:40] of are incredibly

[00:51:42] interesting and thoughtful like

[00:51:44] he doesn't like toss off movies

[00:51:46] No and the thing that's frustrating is the reason

[00:51:48] I do at large

[00:51:50] agree with people with the sentiment

[00:51:52] of do I really care?

[00:51:54] I don't think I really care about where Furiosa

[00:51:56] came from is because of

[00:51:58] how holistically he builds that character

[00:52:00] in Fury Road

[00:52:02] where I am able to infer

[00:52:04] a lot of backstory. Let's

[00:52:06] talk about this though. Yes and

[00:52:08] some of it was different than what I thought

[00:52:10] but watching Fury Road I was like well the

[00:52:12] beauty of this movie is I think I get her

[00:52:14] whole life. But you know Griffin

[00:52:16] some of it is different than you thought because

[00:52:18] they changed it. Interesting.

[00:52:20] So what did they change? The version that Charlize

[00:52:22] read is different than what we see on

[00:52:24] screen and what Charlize is bringing

[00:52:26] and what you're intuiting from

[00:52:28] her performance is not

[00:52:30] what they ended up doing in this

[00:52:32] and I would say the

[00:52:34] biggest change and maybe it's

[00:52:36] one that like you know

[00:52:38] you could guess is that the original

[00:52:40] conception for this is

[00:52:42] that Furiosa did become one of

[00:52:44] the wives. That was my assumption

[00:52:46] She doesn't escape right away

[00:52:48] she becomes one of the wives

[00:52:50] she is cast out eventually when she's

[00:52:52] infertile and then she

[00:52:54] builds her way back into the society

[00:52:56] for revenge disguising

[00:52:58] herself as a war boy.

[00:53:00] That is what Charlize played

[00:53:02] that's why at the end of Fury

[00:53:04] Road when she's confronted with

[00:53:06] Immortan Joe and she says remember me

[00:53:08] it's a little bit of an interesting line because

[00:53:10] you're like well why wouldn't he remember her

[00:53:12] he knows who she is this is Furiosa

[00:53:14] his trusted lieutenant

[00:53:16] but what she's saying is

[00:53:18] I had a past life. I was that young girl

[00:53:20] who you raped as a sex slave

[00:53:22] That was always how I read it. Now

[00:53:24] you can understand why

[00:53:26] when it came time

[00:53:28] in the 2020s

[00:53:30] to actually make this movie

[00:53:32] that many people would have had second

[00:53:34] thoughts about a protagonist

[00:53:36] that is basically sold

[00:53:38] into sex slavery and for years

[00:53:40] has to endure this

[00:53:42] that's a no-fly zone for so many

[00:53:44] people. Even if you don't show it

[00:53:46] it's like does that just cast a pallor

[00:53:48] over the movie that stops

[00:53:50] you from being able to have fun during a war

[00:53:52] rig heist? Right

[00:53:54] and just makes it kind of

[00:53:56] you're just buried in this like awful

[00:53:58] awful awful trauma. Yeah exactly.

[00:54:00] Right. Just very very hard to wrap your brain

[00:54:02] around. Right. So

[00:54:04] I get it and I understand why they would

[00:54:06] change it but it does

[00:54:08] scramble I think

[00:54:10] the connection

[00:54:12] between Furiosa

[00:54:14] and Immortan Joe and the need for

[00:54:16] revenge, the reason she'd even say

[00:54:18] remember me. Right.

[00:54:20] It scrambles a couple things. They're not as

[00:54:22] strong and clearly defined

[00:54:24] just as a result of that. Right.

[00:54:26] There's still enough in Furiosa where

[00:54:28] she sort of changes personality

[00:54:32] The line makes, has logic

[00:54:34] to it still. Yes. If that makes it

[00:54:36] because like yes he was, she was sold

[00:54:38] to him as basically like a little princess.

[00:54:40] Right. She avoided that fate

[00:54:42] but she was basically consigned

[00:54:44] to it. But it doesn't have the

[00:54:46] weight. Yeah. You know

[00:54:48] it's more like hey remember me and he's like what?

[00:54:50] What's the deal with you? Well and I think that also

[00:54:52] presents some tricky new

[00:54:54] problems which is you know

[00:54:56] if a young half-life girl

[00:54:58] goes missing and then

[00:55:00] is interacting with all these people

[00:55:02] a couple years later and is still

[00:55:04] a young full life

[00:55:06] girl you know one who is untinged

[00:55:08] by all these mutant monstrosities

[00:55:10] and then they come upon

[00:55:12] one a couple years later and the timeline

[00:55:14] checks out and she's still interacting with

[00:55:16] Immortan Joe and Dementus, who would

[00:55:18] not think it was this girl who

[00:55:20] escaped? You would know immediately

[00:55:22] it was this girl who escaped. But this is classic

[00:55:24] like fucking Lucas prequel

[00:55:26] problems where like those three

[00:55:28] movies butt up against this shit all the time

[00:55:30] where you're like wait that I always

[00:55:32] assume that was 20 years apart you're telling me

[00:55:34] it's six months apart then why wouldn't this person

[00:55:36] remember that this happened? Star Wars of course

[00:55:38] is the thing that shrinks your brain the most at least

[00:55:40] in Fury Road you're like well everyone is radioactive

[00:55:42] and insane. Right. So I can

[00:55:44] I can you know

[00:55:46] Immortan Joe doesn't feel like the greatest

[00:55:48] man manager out there right

[00:55:50] like I mean he's a little more together than Dementus

[00:55:52] I suppose but at the end

[00:55:54] of the day war boys are war

[00:55:56] boys you know they're kind of this just

[00:55:58] group to him right he's not thinking

[00:56:00] too hard about these people. And George Miller

[00:56:02] is a lot less prescriptive about this

[00:56:04] shit than Lucas was in terms of like filling

[00:56:06] in the gaps and explaining the pieces to you

[00:56:08] but this movie does

[00:56:10] by the nature of what it's intending to do

[00:56:12] have to be more explainy

[00:56:14] which I wouldn't say is like

[00:56:16] to its detriment but every time you're just

[00:56:18] sort of like I don't know if this is what

[00:56:20] I bought the ticket for. I'll

[00:56:22] take this. I don't resent

[00:56:24] it. Everything you just

[00:56:26] said makes a ton of sense Kyle

[00:56:28] I was very surprised when she

[00:56:30] just completely alluded being

[00:56:32] a bride it makes

[00:56:34] sense but it

[00:56:36] does like it changes

[00:56:38] the narrative to basically this

[00:56:40] act of transference of she

[00:56:42] takes her own personal trauma

[00:56:44] and applies it to the

[00:56:46] wives in Fury Road

[00:56:48] and gives them the catharsis

[00:56:50] that she didn't get

[00:56:52] to have. Yes if

[00:56:54] she cannot rescue her own existence

[00:56:56] or experience you know

[00:56:58] childhood at least she can maybe

[00:57:00] save their lives and change

[00:57:02] their experiences which is impactful

[00:57:04] and I do like I'm curious to rewatch

[00:57:06] Fury Road and see if

[00:57:08] any of it lands different for me

[00:57:10] on an emotional level with that character

[00:57:12] because that I mean

[00:57:14] I don't think it'll make any difference

[00:57:16] for me. No. I enjoy this movie

[00:57:18] a lot. It's not like I watched this movie and I was

[00:57:20] like I now I like Fury Road even more

[00:57:22] I don't think I could like Fury

[00:57:24] Road more. This is true. I'm kind of

[00:57:26] maxed out on liking that movie in a good

[00:57:28] way. Like it's just like I always find new

[00:57:30] heights. That's true every

[00:57:32] time but it's like you just watch that movie

[00:57:34] and you know like but I liked watching

[00:57:36] this movie as a George Miller action

[00:57:38] movie. My plans changed

[00:57:40] but I briefly thought I was

[00:57:42] going to be able to engage in the interesting

[00:57:44] experiment of going to see this movie with my

[00:57:46] sister who has never seen Fury Road

[00:57:48] and never seen any of the movies

[00:57:50] and I was like I would

[00:57:52] like to watch this next to someone

[00:57:54] who is just watching this as

[00:57:56] its own object and even then

[00:57:58] telling them to watch Fury Road and seeing how

[00:58:00] it plays in that order

[00:58:02] whereas we have always contended that

[00:58:04] the Star Wars prequels would make the

[00:58:06] original trilogy worse if you're

[00:58:08] watching them in George's

[00:58:10] numerical order. Sure.

[00:58:12] This might make Fury

[00:58:14] Road better. I don't know but I agree with you. I'm just like

[00:58:16] how could anything make Fury Road better rather than

[00:58:18] watching Fury Road? I'm just always going to be

[00:58:20] pretty definitive like you should watch the movie that came

[00:58:22] out first first. Yeah. And you should

[00:58:24] meet Charlize Theron's Furiosa first

[00:58:26] as good I think

[00:58:28] Anya Taylor-Joy is good in the movie but you know what I mean like

[00:58:30] Before we dig into the plot I just

[00:58:32] you threw this out Kyle

[00:58:34] is there any other example

[00:58:36] of a franchise

[00:58:38] recasting

[00:58:40] like an iconic beloved

[00:58:42] performance like that in

[00:58:44] anything but like

[00:58:46] absolute back up against the wall

[00:58:48] this person's gotten too old they've done it six

[00:58:50] times the person died

[00:58:52] right like I cannot think of another case

[00:58:54] where they're like we're doing aliens

[00:58:56] and this time it's going to start Debra

[00:58:58] Wigner. Yeah it's usually

[00:59:00] because the person's gotten too expensive

[00:59:02] or something so they're like let's pivot

[00:59:04] or it's like Michael Gambon

[00:59:06] it's like well the guy died right here's Michael

[00:59:08] Gambon you can't be mad at us

[00:59:10] just run dry we need something

[00:59:12] to like put some lifeblood into

[00:59:14] this let's do a dumb and dumber prequel

[00:59:16] right

[00:59:18] it's like no people wanted to see Jim Carrey in that

[00:59:20] Mel Gibson too anti-semitic

[00:59:22] it's gotta be Tom Hardy now

[00:59:24] the thing with Gibson was he was also too old

[00:59:26] like even in a world where Gibson

[00:59:28] is just chill and normal

[00:59:30] just the most chill normal bro in the world

[00:59:32] by 2015 he would have been too old

[00:59:34] to be in that movie right

[00:59:36] well I do think a lot of it was conceived

[00:59:38] knowing that because the weight

[00:59:40] of it was you know that in intervening

[00:59:42] years he would have gone like completely bug nuts

[00:59:44] max but then also Mel Gibson

[00:59:46] and so Fury

[00:59:48] Road would have been about this you know

[00:59:50] really crazy battle scarred guy

[00:59:52] kind of working his way back

[00:59:54] to being a functioning human

[00:59:56] again over the course of the film

[00:59:58] so they could have made that work

[01:00:00] except that like you know all the

[01:00:02] real world stuff happened with Mel and then

[01:00:04] Mel himself was like I'm too

[01:00:06] old to do all these stunts and be

[01:00:08] out in the desert so that was an issue

[01:00:10] for him even though I do think

[01:00:12] that you can kind of see the version of Fury

[01:00:14] Road that feels designed for

[01:00:16] an older crazier

[01:00:18] Max so here's the last question I

[01:00:20] want to just like map over

[01:00:22] before we dig into the plot of

[01:00:24] this film as we dig into the plot of this film

[01:00:26] watching it the second time

[01:00:28] the thought that hit me because

[01:00:30] I don't think there's another example of

[01:00:32] like the public being like yes we

[01:00:34] want to see more of X

[01:00:36] in the role of Y

[01:00:38] and the franchise pivoting away

[01:00:40] from it when the public

[01:00:42] is ready to buy does this

[01:00:44] movie work better

[01:00:46] I guess does it hit harder

[01:00:48] at the box office if

[01:00:50] it is more of a Godfather part 2

[01:00:52] where it's half Anya Taylor Joy

[01:00:54] prequel and half

[01:00:56] Charlize Theron

[01:00:58] post Fury Road I think

[01:01:00] what you mean is would it be better

[01:01:02] as a Mamma Mia here we go again

[01:01:04] situation thank you and

[01:01:06] my personal feeling is everything will

[01:01:08] be better as a Mamma Mia here we go

[01:01:10] again situation I like all the Furiosa

[01:01:12] prequel stuff and I understand why he wrote it

[01:01:14] but also yes I do

[01:01:16] think that if you if you were like here's

[01:01:18] Charlize continuing from Fury Road

[01:01:20] that it might be

[01:01:22] there might at least feel like you're giving

[01:01:24] a narrative that would entice

[01:01:26] a movie goer like what

[01:01:28] what happens to her next I want to know

[01:01:30] that's the thing if literally your second

[01:01:32] trailer your big trailer is selling

[01:01:34] she wants to escape you're like

[01:01:36] spoiler alert I don't

[01:01:38] think that's gonna happen for you this movie

[01:01:40] has the prequel narrative dead end

[01:01:42] problem which is just like we're moving towards

[01:01:44] a fixed point we all know it is the

[01:01:46] start of this movie this film takes us up to

[01:01:48] like three seconds before Fury Road

[01:01:50] starts it does but by

[01:01:52] doing a lot of people immediately after

[01:01:54] seeing the movie were like I don't understand

[01:01:56] the timing of this and I'm like a tree

[01:01:58] grows yeah so that you just have

[01:02:00] to think of that as the big time

[01:02:02] jump here because they're like how could this possibly

[01:02:04] lead to Fury Road I'm like it doesn't

[01:02:06] he's just skipping the

[01:02:08] filler stuff of like her learning to

[01:02:10] be Furiosa

[01:02:12] there's like a 15 to 20 year jump but then

[01:02:14] the final shot of the movie is Charlize

[01:02:16] footage that takes you to that

[01:02:18] very point no okay

[01:02:20] I mean certainly like all the stuff that

[01:02:22] is legitimately pulled from Fury

[01:02:24] Road is and there is a lot

[01:02:26] of deep faking going on with certain

[01:02:28] characters but to my knowledge

[01:02:30] Charlize did not sort

[01:02:32] of allow them or license

[01:02:34] you know her image to be used

[01:02:36] and certainly

[01:02:38] there are moments at that in that coda

[01:02:40] where you're like oh my god is that Zoe Kravitz

[01:02:42] and is that Riley Keough but everyone

[01:02:44] is kind of in shadow I think there was

[01:02:46] enough plausible deniability

[01:02:48] to how they did it and Anya

[01:02:50] is doing Charlize's voice you

[01:02:52] know yeah it's a pretty close

[01:02:54] match so

[01:02:56] you know you would be forgiven

[01:02:58] for thinking that is Charlize again

[01:03:00] but you know she did not show

[01:03:02] up on set and shoot that stuff so I

[01:03:04] just only noticed the height change

[01:03:06] in the final bit

[01:03:08] when they're going into the rig.

[01:03:10] That's what it is.

[01:03:14] David. Yes? Ants.

[01:03:16] Ants? Aunts.

[01:03:18] Ants, ants, ants, ants,

[01:03:20] uh I hate getting cornered

[01:03:22] by them. We all do I knew that was

[01:03:24] gonna be a relatable conversation

[01:03:26] starter. Why aren't you getting married

[01:03:28] what's going on with that promotion

[01:03:30] why haven't you moved out of mom and dad's basement

[01:03:32] Griffin. Oh those were directed at me?

[01:03:34] Apparently. Oh now I feel attacked.

[01:03:36] Get out of the basement

[01:03:38] Griffin!

[01:03:40] She doesn't listen she just

[01:03:42] judges, judges, judges.

[01:03:44] You're getting together with your family you might have

[01:03:46] to be in a barrage with these kinds of

[01:03:48] questions but. Staying there and grinning Barrett.

[01:03:50] I don't want you feeling that way when you talk

[01:03:52] to your doctor about like a

[01:03:54] weird rash or that you

[01:03:56] eat pizza when too many times a week

[01:03:58] or something else. Unfortunately.

[01:04:00] I'm kind of read for filth by this head copy right now.

[01:04:02] Unfortunately the twist to this riddle

[01:04:04] is that the doctor

[01:04:06] is my aunt. Oh no!

[01:04:08] But other people might have another one. I can't treat

[01:04:10] this patient he's my nephew.

[01:04:12] Yeah. Uh enter ZocDoc the place

[01:04:14] where you can find and book doctors who make you feel

[01:04:16] comfortable and actually listen to you.

[01:04:18] That's what I'm talking about. We're talking about tens of thousands of

[01:04:20] doctors all with verified patient reviews so you can

[01:04:22] make sure the vibes are vibing before

[01:04:24] you ever meet IRL.

[01:04:26] People they think well what are the

[01:04:28] valuable attributes in a doctor?

[01:04:30] Big brain.

[01:04:32] Steady hand.

[01:04:34] Sharp eye. Sure.

[01:04:36] Quietly. I have an eagle!

[01:04:38] Hand of a hawk!

[01:04:40] It's about the ear. Yeah yeah

[01:04:42] absolutely. The ear and the heart. The doctor

[01:04:44] who can listen and understand.

[01:04:46] Yeah look the whole thing with ZocDoc

[01:04:48] Yeah. Well there's lots of good things with ZocDoc

[01:04:50] Many good things. Like you know it helps you see if

[01:04:52] a doctor has insurance. It helps you book

[01:04:54] appointments. Like often you can do

[01:04:56] within like 24 or 48 hours.

[01:04:58] Yeah you could do a Nolte-Murray.

[01:05:00] You could do a second Nolte-Murray.

[01:05:02] But you really can also

[01:05:04] try to see if a doctor will make you feel

[01:05:06] comfortable or prioritize your health. You can search

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[01:05:10] You can search by availability. You can search by

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[01:05:14] because with ZocDoc you got more options

[01:05:16] than you know.

[01:05:18] And they're not gonna judge you

[01:05:20] for eating well maybe the pizza thing

[01:05:22] will come up but the basement living probably won't.

[01:05:24] ZocDoc is a free app and

[01:05:26] website where you can search and compare highly rated

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[01:05:34] wait on hold with the receptionist and they've all got

[01:05:36] verified reviews from real

[01:05:38] actual patients. Thank God because you know

[01:05:40] the unfortunate thing is

[01:05:42] the receptionist, my

[01:05:44] other aunt. Sheesh

[01:05:46] Yeah when I go to the doctor's office I get an earful

[01:05:48] Are you calling from a basement?

[01:05:50] ZocDoc

[01:05:52] Okay. Yep.

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[01:06:10] You can get an appointment in like 24 to 72

[01:06:12] hours. Or in the middle 48

[01:06:14] hours in ultimurphy which I accidentally said

[01:06:16] as Nolte Murray twice.

[01:06:19] Okay so this movie opens it has five

[01:06:21] chapters. The first chapter is called

[01:06:23] The Pole of Inaccessibility. I completely

[01:06:25] forgot about the chapter titles.

[01:06:27] Let me see if I can find them. Oh yeah I have

[01:06:29] them. I love chapter titles

[01:06:31] The Pole of Inaccessibility

[01:06:33] I'm all for a director's

[01:06:35] vision and pushing it. I love it.

[01:06:37] I love that he said

[01:06:39] screw you casual audience. Yes

[01:06:41] This is a chapter movie and the first one

[01:06:43] is called The Pole of Accessibility

[01:06:45] That is the pole of

[01:06:47] inaccessibility. Correct. For a mainstream

[01:06:49] moviegoer. It is already

[01:06:51] too highfalutin. He's calling his own shot

[01:06:53] This is the most overused term

[01:06:55] that any critic uses

[01:06:57] when a movie is kind of long and episodic

[01:06:59] but it's very Dickensian

[01:07:01] this film has this kind of

[01:07:03] picaresque structure. She's

[01:07:05] moving through worlds

[01:07:07] within this large world right

[01:07:09] it's like it's very you know

[01:07:11] a young woman's ascension through the

[01:07:13] wasteland right she starts out in the green

[01:07:15] place then she's a princess then she's a

[01:07:17] war boy then she's a you know

[01:07:19] imperator whatever the fuck. Bilge's review

[01:07:21] is incredibly good for this film

[01:07:23] and he made the argument that

[01:07:25] like that is the key to understanding

[01:07:27] these shifts in visuals in this movie

[01:07:29] because for how much people want to stew on like

[01:07:31] why does it look fake

[01:07:33] I'm like first of all this fucking Mad Max movie

[01:07:35] none of these things look real

[01:07:37] he's dealing in like degrees

[01:07:39] of heightened reality but I do

[01:07:41] think and this is Bilge's contention that like

[01:07:43] he's going for more of a

[01:07:45] storybook vibe in this film

[01:07:47] narratively he is giving you that

[01:07:49] and the look of it

[01:07:51] certainly even this opening

[01:07:53] section where we see the green place

[01:07:55] it feels very like

[01:07:57] a fabley

[01:07:59] Alice in

[01:08:01] Wasteland. Yes.

[01:08:03] Right because it's sort of her imagination

[01:08:05] and it is

[01:08:07] this well

[01:08:09] in Fury Road we sort of assume must be this

[01:08:11] sort of fake idea right there's an actual

[01:08:13] kind of verdant paradise within

[01:08:15] the radioactive wasteland after

[01:08:17] the global we have the classic Mad Max

[01:08:19] opening of like we're hearing

[01:08:21] weird broadcasts

[01:08:23] news clips right of the world

[01:08:25] kind of coming to an end. And this movie we should say starts

[01:08:27] with the storyteller which is big because basically

[01:08:29] every Mad Max movie post

[01:08:31] Mad Max is being told by a different

[01:08:33] person it's part of the lack

[01:08:35] of coherent lore in these movies

[01:08:37] that every film is basically

[01:08:39] a like folk tale being

[01:08:41] recounted by someone. The history

[01:08:43] man, George Shvetsov

[01:08:45] I don't know who that is Kyle

[01:08:47] I don't know if you know anything about this man

[01:08:49] A different guy than

[01:08:51] they had in the last one. Well they had a history woman

[01:08:53] I think. Right. Also

[01:08:55] he was also the old storyteller

[01:08:57] in 3000 Years of Longing. Okay. Yes.

[01:08:59] He's sort of like a Wikipedia

[01:09:01] I like that idea that Dementus

[01:09:03] is like I want a guy who's Wikipedia

[01:09:05] It also is funny that Kingdom of the Plants

[01:09:07] and the Apes has an almost identical concept

[01:09:09] He's basically playing that role essentially

[01:09:11] And it's the same thing of like let me get a

[01:09:13] really smart guy to explain to me

[01:09:15] history. Kind of a court jester vibe

[01:09:17] you want someone around who's just gonna

[01:09:19] tell you stories. But also I want to

[01:09:21] do a good impression of an old emperor

[01:09:23] so tell me how emperors used to work

[01:09:25] Oh I thought

[01:09:27] you Griffin were going to do an impression

[01:09:29] Oh sure yeah. I'm always game

[01:09:31] I can't do the impression as I already said

[01:09:33] He's got an incredible look

[01:09:35] We gotta say that. Yeah. Dementus?

[01:09:37] No. No the history man

[01:09:39] He's got text tattooed on his face

[01:09:41] And all of his clothes

[01:09:43] Prison break

[01:09:45] vibe. Oh huge prison break

[01:09:47] Wentworth Miller. Yeah. It's all on his

[01:09:49] skin. I feel like if you put him

[01:09:51] in some good like kind of hype beast

[01:09:53] drapey clothing like I could see

[01:09:55] him in Silver Lake

[01:09:57] The whole thing with these movies

[01:09:59] is you're kind of like we're only two steps

[01:10:01] removed from a rave

[01:10:03] half an hour from LA

[01:10:05] You put the history man in some congratulations

[01:10:07] and he'd fit on that runway

[01:10:09] perfectly. Absolutely. Of course. Yeah

[01:10:11] This is the green place

[01:10:13] Let's say it looks fucking

[01:10:15] great. Looks nice. Furiosa and her

[01:10:17] sister are picking peaches

[01:10:19] They run across a couple raiders

[01:10:21] This is Valkyrie who's

[01:10:23] the Meg and Gale character in Fury Road

[01:10:25] I don't know if it's strict sister

[01:10:27] but you know they probably

[01:10:29] say sister. London sisterhood

[01:10:31] Sure. And

[01:10:33] then we are in a fairly

[01:10:35] intense chase early on for as

[01:10:37] much as this movie is more deliberate

[01:10:39] It does kind of kick off with some wild

[01:10:41] stuff. But it I will

[01:10:43] say. But it's a kidnapping

[01:10:45] The tone of this sequence is

[01:10:47] so much more sort of like sadder

[01:10:49] and contemplative than most of the

[01:10:51] Mad Max action sequences certainly the ones

[01:10:53] we've gotten used to. Charlie

[01:10:55] Fraser is her name? Yes

[01:10:57] She kicks ass

[01:10:59] She's so fucking good at this

[01:11:01] Amazing. Now we all know her as the

[01:11:03] topless woman in Anyone But You

[01:11:05] Her only other screen credits

[01:11:07] Insane. In Anyone But You

[01:11:09] the normal movie where everyone's normal

[01:11:11] which was also set in Australia

[01:11:13] Is she the ex of

[01:11:15] Glenn Powell? What's her deal? She's Glenn

[01:11:17] Powell's ex. Why is she also in Australia?

[01:11:19] Why is that movie set in Australia?

[01:11:21] It's insane. She's Glenn Powell's

[01:11:23] She is Australian. I know

[01:11:25] She's Glenn Powell's ex

[01:11:27] Why is Rachel Karpis not allowed to have an Australian accent?

[01:11:29] Everything about that movie is insane

[01:11:31] I talked about that movie to my

[01:11:33] therapist for 10 minutes because she was like

[01:11:35] I'm sorry. I know this isn't what we're here to talk about

[01:11:37] but have you seen Anyone But You?

[01:11:39] And I was like yeah. I'm so ready

[01:11:41] to unpack this

[01:11:43] It is so bizarre. But like if you

[01:11:45] said to me like oh the

[01:11:47] girl who played like the sort of free spirit

[01:11:49] in Anyone But You is

[01:11:51] like a badass biker

[01:11:53] mom in Furiosa I would have been like

[01:11:55] Oh okay. I don't

[01:11:57] really see how that's gonna work. She is not bad in that movie

[01:11:59] No she's fine. And she shot this before

[01:12:01] Anyone But You obviously. That makes sense

[01:12:03] This is like literally her first film

[01:12:05] Yeah. Anyone But You was shot like yesterday

[01:12:07] Anyone But You is still being filmed

[01:12:09] She rules. Yes. She rules so hard

[01:12:11] like it's so fitting that she comes from

[01:12:13] a place called the green place of many mothers

[01:12:15] because I said many mothers

[01:12:17] while watching her do her shit

[01:12:19] I was muttering. I was like Jennifer Coolidge

[01:12:21] and White Lotus. I was like mother mother mother mother

[01:12:23] mother watching her take

[01:12:25] apart these motorcycles and all that

[01:12:27] She's got that you know

[01:12:29] just I mean look

[01:12:31] when I talked to George Miller. I interviewed George Miller for this movie

[01:12:33] I haven't brought that up yet

[01:12:35] All he wanted to talk about was like faces and

[01:12:37] eyes and silent cinema. All of

[01:12:39] his fascinations. These are not new

[01:12:41] fascinations for him but I do think

[01:12:43] he loves to strip out as much

[01:12:45] as he can from the dialogue

[01:12:47] Not with Dementors who has like the specific

[01:12:49] concept of like the trickster

[01:12:51] you know who monologues but

[01:12:53] everyone else right and he's

[01:12:55] like look I know this is a cliche but the eyes

[01:12:57] are the window to the soul

[01:12:59] and she is just feels like someone he probably

[01:13:01] saw a picture of him was like that woman

[01:13:03] She's an Australian model. Right

[01:13:05] In her eyes

[01:13:07] there's so much. He gets so much

[01:13:09] out of her. It is such a complicated performance

[01:13:11] She is conveying so much in sort of

[01:13:13] emotional history while also doing

[01:13:15] what we know to be incredibly

[01:13:17] complicated George Miller shooting schedule

[01:13:19] shit where she probably was filming for

[01:13:21] 35 days and said

[01:13:23] 25 words you know

[01:13:25] like all the pieces he has to capture

[01:13:27] and it is so funny to view this

[01:13:29] in relation to anyone but you where they're

[01:13:31] like and your role in this movie is

[01:13:33] what if a woman had smaller breasts

[01:13:35] Sure. Like she exists

[01:13:37] mostly as just a visual

[01:13:39] joke and then in this film she

[01:13:41] is able to convey so much with every look

[01:13:43] I... It's one

[01:13:45] of those things where you're like I know she's not

[01:13:47] going to win right

[01:13:49] I know Furiosa is going to get kidnapped

[01:13:51] like she you know

[01:13:53] but you're just kind of like I don't really see how this

[01:13:55] woman will be defeated when she

[01:13:57] just kind of like sternly rides off after

[01:13:59] Furiosa after these raiders

[01:14:01] starts taking them down with a sniper

[01:14:03] rifle. I'm just kind of like she's indestructible

[01:14:05] like she will triumph

[01:14:07] To me this is the best example in the movie

[01:14:09] of knowing what will happen but still

[01:14:11] feeling incredibly invested

[01:14:13] and even thinking

[01:14:15] no she can get away

[01:14:17] with it. She can reverse

[01:14:19] the course of what we think is about to happen

[01:14:21] because she's that good and when she

[01:14:23] does finally get to Furiosa

[01:14:25] and escape with her

[01:14:27] like I'll be damned if I didn't think

[01:14:29] she's going to pull it off. No more movie after this

[01:14:31] but you know what it's great. Furiosa

[01:14:33] will be safe. But you're getting at

[01:14:35] the key nerd of tension that most

[01:14:37] prequels fail to identify

[01:14:39] which is well if you're moving

[01:14:41] towards a fixed point where we know where this

[01:14:43] has to end, what the status quo is going to be

[01:14:45] by the end of the movie, introduce

[01:14:47] elements where we cannot do

[01:14:49] the math of how could you possibly

[01:14:51] get from what I'm seeing in front of me

[01:14:53] to this point. Yeah

[01:14:55] and it's like what David said because she

[01:14:57] is so adept.

[01:14:59] It made me really realize this first sequence

[01:15:01] which I love. I think it's probably the best

[01:15:03] sequence in the film. Resourcefulness

[01:15:05] is a really appealing character

[01:15:07] trait. She has it

[01:15:09] Furiosa has it. The way Furiosa

[01:15:11] bites into that fuel

[01:15:13] line. Loved that. And

[01:15:15] the way that we're watching her mother

[01:15:17] constantly upgrade the bike and try to

[01:15:19] figure out new ways to get to her mission

[01:15:21] God I mean like

[01:15:23] you know there's that old studio

[01:15:25] note of the person you know the character has

[01:15:27] to be sympathetic, the character has to be relatable

[01:15:29] The character should be

[01:15:31] resourceful. If you give me a resourceful

[01:15:33] character even if it's a villain, I'm

[01:15:35] invested. I love watching

[01:15:37] competent people do things that I

[01:15:39] would never think of. It's

[01:15:41] kind of exciting. It brings

[01:15:43] you along further into the sequence

[01:15:45] when you don't know what they're about to do next

[01:15:47] but you know they know. Very well said

[01:15:49] and I do like that

[01:15:51] one of the major

[01:15:53] sort of themes of this movie is that

[01:15:55] Furiosa is a person of

[01:15:57] many parents

[01:15:59] some of them chosen, some of them

[01:16:01] given, some of them forced upon

[01:16:03] her. But her personality

[01:16:05] as we meet her in Fury Road

[01:16:07] develops through her time with all these different

[01:16:09] people. And it would be

[01:16:11] in a lesser filmmaker they'd start it out

[01:16:13] with she's just like a happy-go-lucky girl

[01:16:15] in the fields with a flower and then she's

[01:16:17] curdled and made tough

[01:16:19] but you're like no her mother is

[01:16:21] responsible for the first 30% of it

[01:16:23] before her life becomes an extended

[01:16:25] tragedy. Some of this has

[01:16:27] already been built into her personality

[01:16:29] Yeah you get the vibe that they have already

[01:16:31] talked a lot about what to do in

[01:16:33] this situation such as her gnawing through the gas

[01:16:35] line. But she doesn't panic at all

[01:16:37] She gets kidnapped not because she's

[01:16:39] escaping these bandits who

[01:16:41] found their way into the Green Place but because she goes

[01:16:43] over to sabotage them. Yes

[01:16:45] That's kind of badass

[01:16:47] It gives you an idea of what you're dealing with

[01:16:49] So these guys who are

[01:16:51] who are silly, let's be honest

[01:16:53] Silly and bad. Right but like they don't

[01:16:55] they're not giving like

[01:16:57] hardcore assassins

[01:16:59] like they're two weird junkers

[01:17:01] who got really far away from

[01:17:03] their camp right in search

[01:17:05] of something and they actually found something

[01:17:07] and they managed to get

[01:17:09] Furiosa to

[01:17:11] their

[01:17:13] settlement I guess the biker horde

[01:17:15] It's sort of like a moving settlement

[01:17:17] right? Is that the idea?

[01:17:19] And Dementus

[01:17:21] is this is the leader

[01:17:23] but he's this kind of

[01:17:25] it's just so different from

[01:17:27] Immortan Joe

[01:17:29] wisely obviously

[01:17:31] but it's like he's got this kind of like cult mystique

[01:17:33] about him but it's all personality

[01:17:35] and it's no resources

[01:17:37] Well first of all like just classic George Miller

[01:17:39] visual storytelling the fact that they are a

[01:17:41] biker gang and not a car gang

[01:17:43] immediately tells us something about their station

[01:17:45] relative to every other

[01:17:47] bad horde we've met in the Mad Max

[01:17:49] saga right?

[01:17:51] Like for primary antagonists you're like

[01:17:53] these guys are a level below

[01:17:55] I saw this

[01:17:57] second time last night at the Alamo

[01:17:59] and they replayed

[01:18:01] the sort of do not talk turn off your phone

[01:18:03] message that they had recorded

[01:18:05] when Fury Road came

[01:18:07] out that is George Miller and Hugh

[01:18:09] Keysburn who has sadly passed

[01:18:11] away now and I hadn't

[01:18:13] seen this in years and it was sweet to

[01:18:15] see again and the bit is

[01:18:17] they're intercutting between

[01:18:19] Keysburn

[01:18:21] talking in real time giving a very

[01:18:23] flowery very florid very

[01:18:25] sort of like verbose

[01:18:27] monologue about the rules

[01:18:29] we make in a society and how people treat

[01:18:31] each other and what we should do

[01:18:33] upon others and what have you

[01:18:35] with the footage of Toe

[01:18:37] Cutter from the first movie

[01:18:39] and seeing that right

[01:18:41] before reminded me that like

[01:18:43] Dementors is closer to

[01:18:45] Toe Cutter. Yeah because Toe Cutter is

[01:18:47] kind of cult

[01:18:49] and he monologues yes and he's got this

[01:18:51] sort of weird like operatic

[01:18:53] sort of humor to him

[01:18:55] but yes this guy seems like a

[01:18:57] fucking goofball

[01:18:59] he is positioning himself at the beginning

[01:19:01] it feels like closer to something like a spiritual

[01:19:03] leader when we first meet him and I

[01:19:05] saw the fucking movie with Ben

[01:19:07] we went to see it Thursday night in 40X

[01:19:09] and I had the joke in my head and I was like

[01:19:11] I'm going to be the first to fucking make this joke

[01:19:13] I'm going to make it on the episode and I'm going to win an OB for

[01:19:15] this and then Joko Zala friend of the

[01:19:17] podcast went on Twitter and beat me to the punch

[01:19:19] he looks like Guru

[01:19:21] Pika from the Love Guru

[01:19:23] he's got the mustache and the fake nose

[01:19:25] but especially in the beginning when we meet him

[01:19:27] and he's got the hood up and the white and he's

[01:19:29] in his sort of like tent. He might as well be playing

[01:19:31] 9 to 5 on a sitar. And it would be

[01:19:33] funny and we would laugh. I would

[01:19:35] still give you at least a Cable Ace award

[01:19:37] for that joke right there. Thank you

[01:19:39] I just meet this guy and I'm expecting to hear

[01:19:41] the ding of him getting an erection under his

[01:19:43] chastity belt because he looks like Guru

[01:19:45] Pika. What do you know about

[01:19:47] Dementors Kyle

[01:19:49] like the look

[01:19:51] the approach like was Hemsworth

[01:19:53] always the guy like

[01:19:55] probably not I assume. No

[01:19:57] I don't think that George thought that he

[01:19:59] would cast someone like Chris Hemsworth

[01:20:01] but when they first met I think

[01:20:03] Chris really appealed to

[01:20:05] his sense of A being Australian

[01:20:07] and B like

[01:20:09] he wanted to do something that would kind

[01:20:11] of bust him out of this straight jacket

[01:20:13] of playing a hero and the

[01:20:15] nose was a large part of that like

[01:20:17] he wanted to look unfamiliar

[01:20:19] to audiences which also

[01:20:21] maybe didn't help as far as box

[01:20:23] office but you know that allowed

[01:20:25] him to give a performance that he wouldn't normally

[01:20:27] give. The thing about the nose also

[01:20:29] is that George loves a nose like

[01:20:31] this. George tried to get

[01:20:33] Idris Elba to wear this nose

[01:20:35] for 3000 years of

[01:20:37] longing and Idris was

[01:20:39] like I'm good with my nose. Thank you

[01:20:41] though. The ears are fine. Let's

[01:20:43] keep it at that. Yes. So

[01:20:45] so but that nose did find its way

[01:20:47] onto a Sultan character

[01:20:49] in 3000 years of longing

[01:20:51] who was played by the guy who plays

[01:20:53] Immortan Joe in this. Lakey

[01:20:55] Holm. Right. That nose is also worn

[01:20:57] by George Miller himself

[01:20:59] who has like a very brief cameo in

[01:21:01] 3000 years of longing and you wouldn't know

[01:21:03] because he's got that fucking nose on.

[01:21:05] Lakey Holm. Is it Lakey or Lakey?

[01:21:07] I always forget how to say this person's

[01:21:09] name but I always

[01:21:11] love to shout out that he

[01:21:13] was, he's in the Matrix sequels

[01:21:15] as Sparks one of the guys

[01:21:17] on Naobi's ship and he was

[01:21:19] briefly put on a

[01:21:21] list of guys who are auditioning

[01:21:23] for Joker in the Dark Knight.

[01:21:25] And it was with this narrative of like this might be

[01:21:27] the Dark Horse guy who gets the part. Correct. He

[01:21:29] has since said that he never even met with

[01:21:31] Chris Finnegan. Right, he's always been like

[01:21:33] no I did not get far at all and

[01:21:35] maybe it was just an over eager agent in a

[01:21:37] different era of the internet somehow

[01:21:39] convinced someone. No no no

[01:21:41] he's like one of the five like.

[01:21:43] But he exists in weird internet

[01:21:45] weird lore as like a name

[01:21:47] that everyone was obsessed with 20 years

[01:21:49] ago. I just remember at you know

[01:21:51] in the mid 2000s you would Google your who

[01:21:53] Lakey Holm never heard and you'd Google him and you're

[01:21:55] like I guess he kind of looks like

[01:21:57] the Joker. You know he's got this

[01:21:59] swept back hair and he's got now he's 20

[01:22:01] years older obviously.

[01:22:03] But who ended up getting that role? Heath Ledger

[01:22:05] obviously who was supposed to play

[01:22:07] Max in Fury Road. Yes. Fuck

[01:22:09] that's crazy. I will also say

[01:22:11] watching this film a second time. Obviously

[01:22:13] Lachey Holm plays Riz Dale Pell

[01:22:15] right this like wacky

[01:22:17] lieutenant to Dementus. Uh huh

[01:22:19] yeah so he plays two roles within this. But then

[01:22:21] also plays a Morton Joe. But like wasn't Miller

[01:22:23] initially like I'm just gonna have a stunt man

[01:22:25] do it. And I'll film him from behind and I won't

[01:22:27] have him talk really. Right and Lachey was

[01:22:29] like I can do it. Like I look like him.

[01:22:31] And was like also I think I can do the voice. Right

[01:22:33] I can do it. I think I could do a good tribute

[01:22:35] to. Which he does. He does.

[01:22:37] It's pretty seamless. Well they were also going

[01:22:39] to deep fake Hughes

[01:22:41] makes perfect sense. On to him

[01:22:43] right when he was doing

[01:22:45] the performance George thought that it was good

[01:22:47] enough that they didn't have to mess with it. That's

[01:22:49] cool. Which I think was wise. Yeah.

[01:22:51] You don't need to be deep faking nothing.

[01:22:53] Watching this again. Yes.

[01:22:55] The first time I was like who is

[01:22:57] uh uh Hemsworth

[01:22:59] doing? Aside from obviously

[01:23:01] a sequel. Right a sequel. Right.

[01:23:03] The answer is a sequel. I don't think

[01:23:05] he's ripping him off in any way.

[01:23:07] But this performance feels

[01:23:09] very in line with the energy

[01:23:11] that Heath Ledger was giving us

[01:23:13] in like the last five years of his career.

[01:23:15] Sure. Where you were like this guy is just uncorked

[01:23:17] now and he's like

[01:23:19] completely surrendered his movie star image

[01:23:21] and he's just experimenting

[01:23:23] and throwing shit at the wall. I do think

[01:23:25] I agree with you that like the nose

[01:23:27] is important psychologically

[01:23:29] for unleashing

[01:23:31] this guy. For letting Hemsworth

[01:23:33] like unlock parts of himself.

[01:23:35] Because obviously we're like

[01:23:37] almost 10 years into people being like

[01:23:39] do you know that Chris Hemsworth is

[01:23:41] secretly funny? Right. Like we've all been

[01:23:43] in on this thing but every other time he's

[01:23:45] been funny in a movie it is

[01:23:47] isn't it funny that this guy who looks like a

[01:23:49] Tendon. That this hottie right is

[01:23:51] behaving this way. And this is the first time

[01:23:53] he's freed from the way he looks

[01:23:55] and can just play an entirely different guy.

[01:23:57] More than that Griffin he's never

[01:23:59] really been allowed to go full Australian

[01:24:01] before. And I'm not just talking

[01:24:03] about the accent I'm talking

[01:24:05] about the sensibility. You know last time

[01:24:07] I was here we did Holy Smoke

[01:24:09] so we were talking a lot about

[01:24:11] Australian accents, Australian sensibilities

[01:24:13] Australian directors but there's always

[01:24:15] this thing of you'll push

[01:24:17] further, harder

[01:24:19] into a more bizarre place. They are not

[01:24:21] afraid to go kind of

[01:24:23] nuts. You know certainly our best Australian

[01:24:25] auteurs are always

[01:24:27] pushing. Gonzo!

[01:24:29] And this is Hemsworth's opportunity

[01:24:31] to show he can keep up with that.

[01:24:33] That he's capable of that too. He's talked

[01:24:35] about in interviews he desperately wanted to get

[01:24:37] an audition for Fury Road it was before

[01:24:39] Thor where he couldn't get in the room

[01:24:41] his father was a stunt driver

[01:24:43] on one of the early films

[01:24:45] like he this is like important

[01:24:47] cultural heritage to him. He dreamed

[01:24:49] to be part of this franchise at some point

[01:24:51] Chris Hemsworth he's an

[01:24:53] actor I've pretty much liked from

[01:24:55] the like the first time I saw him which was his

[01:24:57] first film credit Star Trek

[01:24:59] the first film credit he

[01:25:01] has playing George Kirk in this sort of like

[01:25:03] powerful opening scene of the movie then he's dead

[01:25:05] but I basically just kind of always been like

[01:25:07] that guy's got a lot of presence right

[01:25:09] he has made so many interesting

[01:25:11] career decisions

[01:25:13] versus the Chris Evans and Chris

[01:25:15] Pratt's of the world. We've talked

[01:25:17] about it a lot. They all flop but they're all good

[01:25:19] or well not you know like

[01:25:21] if I just look at this like Rush

[01:25:23] Black Hat I mean

[01:25:25] Ghostbusters sure you know

[01:25:27] Heart of the Sea, El Royale

[01:25:29] this even like Spiderhead

[01:25:31] which he's also villainous in and is

[01:25:33] like really like going for it and like I'm like

[01:25:35] I like all of these moves he's made

[01:25:37] and they rarely are hit. We've talked

[01:25:39] about it before probably in our Black Hat episode

[01:25:41] but he was the only one of the guys

[01:25:43] after he gets his

[01:25:45] big Marvel role who is like great

[01:25:47] I use my cash to get big

[01:25:49] budget adult grown up

[01:25:51] movies made and has the run

[01:25:53] of Rush Black Hat in the Heart

[01:25:55] of the Sea that all bomb

[01:25:57] and then it feels like he went into like

[01:25:59] I need a second franchise cul-de-sac

[01:26:01] of Men in Black International

[01:26:03] and Huntsman and like

[01:26:05] Ghostbusters and all of that but he's

[01:26:07] good in everything

[01:26:09] He's talented. I think he's become more interesting

[01:26:11] as he ages. Absolutely. As a person too

[01:26:13] I remember interviewing him

[01:26:15] for Star Trek and I thought man

[01:26:17] this is one of the most dry toast

[01:26:19] people I've ever spoken to. Sure.

[01:26:21] And he probably had like the Marvel box around

[01:26:23] him. But now talking to him for

[01:26:25] Furiosa he's chatty, interesting

[01:26:27] thoughtful you know I think

[01:26:29] that he's deepened. All of his quotes on this

[01:26:31] press tour have been like very introspective

[01:26:33] and interesting. Men in Black

[01:26:35] International is the movie where

[01:26:37] I feel like he is doing the least

[01:26:39] and he is being asked

[01:26:41] yeah just do your kind of charming dude thing please

[01:26:43] and it's the worst he can be. It's basically a riff

[01:26:45] on Ghostbusters where they're like oh it's funny

[01:26:47] when you're kind of dumb and handsome. You gotta be kind of a

[01:26:49] messy himbo. Yeah.

[01:26:51] And it's the worst he can be. Agreed.

[01:26:53] And then this is like

[01:26:55] this is the opposite where it's just like

[01:26:57] he's completely out of his comfort zone.

[01:26:59] He unlocked the attic. We're in like a whole

[01:27:01] different story of the house now.

[01:27:03] Yeah. I mean he makes those extraction

[01:27:05] movies where I'm just like I know he's in them

[01:27:07] I've seen them. I have no

[01:27:09] concept of what he even does in those movies. But here's what

[01:27:11] I like. He's got one fucking streaming

[01:27:13] thing he does right basically. The extraction

[01:27:15] movies. Sure. He's not a guy who's

[01:27:17] constantly doing your fucking red notices

[01:27:19] and red ones and whatever. Ghosts did yes.

[01:27:21] And his Netflix like franchise

[01:27:23] is also kind of like about

[01:27:25] its gritty modesty.

[01:27:27] Not those movies are cheap but he's not doing

[01:27:29] the fucking great. They're stripped down. They're

[01:27:31] not full of themselves. Right.

[01:27:33] Can I suggest that the thing that kind of kept

[01:27:35] Chris from being like a

[01:27:37] genuine star instead of a guy who's

[01:27:39] in the movies that you see is

[01:27:41] that somewhere along the line

[01:27:43] right after Thor if this

[01:27:45] had been the 90s when they were making

[01:27:47] every type of movie he should have

[01:27:49] been cast in a fucking rom com.

[01:27:51] He has an incredibly appealing

[01:27:53] energy where he could have been the hunky guy

[01:27:55] in a rom com and he would have

[01:27:57] made you fall in love with his actual

[01:27:59] personality. It's what happened

[01:28:01] to Hugh Jackman. I don't know that he's always ever gotten to show

[01:28:03] it. So for as talented

[01:28:05] as he is and as castable as he

[01:28:07] is if you ask me who

[01:28:09] is Chris Hemsworth well if you ask

[01:28:11] you know a normal person and I'm not

[01:28:13] a normal person but if you ask them who Chris

[01:28:15] Hemsworth is they'll just say Thor

[01:28:17] they're not they don't know who he is

[01:28:19] or what he brings to the table

[01:28:21] and I think he never really had a role

[01:28:23] that showed that. I think we're finally starting

[01:28:25] to get back to this and Glenn Powell

[01:28:27] is like the case study of like someone

[01:28:29] resetting to this model

[01:28:31] but the way careers used to develop

[01:28:33] is it's like you make

[01:28:35] you go through the checklist when you're on

[01:28:37] the cusp of movie stardom of like

[01:28:39] gotta make a movie for each type of audience

[01:28:41] you gotta flex yourself in a couple

[01:28:43] different genres you gotta win over kids

[01:28:45] you gotta win over women you gotta win over teenagers

[01:28:47] you gotta make an action movie and then

[01:28:49] you get to this point where you're like you're a five

[01:28:51] tool player now you can open anything

[01:28:53] and Hemsworth

[01:28:55] is an example of someone who was just

[01:28:57] squeezed by this model that wasn't

[01:28:59] allowing him to flex different genres

[01:29:01] in

[01:29:03] a lot of ways. That having been said it is

[01:29:05] interesting I feel like this list would look very

[01:29:07] different now that feels like we're on the

[01:29:09] verge of a new wave of movie stars finally

[01:29:11] rising but there was that

[01:29:13] like fucking public survey

[01:29:15] two years ago I think that was like who

[01:29:17] are the top 20 movie stars

[01:29:19] and the only guy who was under

[01:29:21] 40 on the list was Hemsworth

[01:29:23] it was like he was the only

[01:29:25] guy who registered in a pretty

[01:29:27] wide-ranging public survey

[01:29:29] who wasn't someone who has been famous

[01:29:31] since the 90s at the latest

[01:29:33] was Hemsworth administering the survey?

[01:29:35] maybe I just found it

[01:29:37] interesting of the Chris's he was the

[01:29:39] highest rank raising his eyebrow

[01:29:41] think of

[01:29:43] Hugh Jackman like I said

[01:29:45] emerges as a superhero right

[01:29:47] and the response from Hollywood in 2000

[01:29:49] is like alright let's get you in some romp comes

[01:29:51] maybe the last guy who got to do everything

[01:29:53] yeah like let's get you in Kate and Leopold

[01:29:55] hey you want to bounce off Ashley Judd for a minute

[01:29:57] there's a movie for you you know

[01:29:59] all that and then yeah do your superhero

[01:30:01] stuff sure sure sure but like

[01:30:03] then you got Hemsworth we just talked about him

[01:30:05] and now Glenn Powell it's kind of like that dude

[01:30:07] is not doing a Marvel movie

[01:30:09] like because now he's turning down

[01:30:11] Jurassic right now it's kind of

[01:30:13] like you kind of get lost in those

[01:30:15] things and it takes forever and it clogs up your schedule

[01:30:17] I'm going to do this that and the other

[01:30:19] and we'll see if it works and we'll see what the future

[01:30:21] of Hollywood is and maybe it's time to just like

[01:30:23] you know put a big for sale sign

[01:30:25] version of that like starting to

[01:30:27] get people doing it

[01:30:29] the old school way again and it working

[01:30:31] I do hope even though this

[01:30:33] movie does not seem like it's going to be

[01:30:35] a boon at the box

[01:30:37] office in general that it does

[01:30:39] open up Hemsworth a little bit

[01:30:41] right me too me too

[01:30:43] and he and you know obviously

[01:30:45] we know he's a formidable physical presence but

[01:30:47] this movie knows how to use it

[01:30:49] in fact I think they really delight

[01:30:51] in like tweaking him I

[01:30:53] know that for a long time with Dementus

[01:30:55] it was a question of like well what is he going to look

[01:30:57] like I think before they'd cast Hemsworth

[01:30:59] the idea was that he would be

[01:31:01] like a beautiful angelic face

[01:31:03] man with like a gaping face wound

[01:31:05] I know that's something that they

[01:31:07] played with at some point and even within

[01:31:09] the movie like Dementus

[01:31:11] goes through like three or four

[01:31:13] distinct visual phases

[01:31:15] yes he's got different looks

[01:31:17] about tracking the difference in his

[01:31:19] color palettes across

[01:31:21] the movie and what it says about him in each stage

[01:31:23] it's great because in a normal movie

[01:31:25] in a superhero movie I would just be cynical about it

[01:31:27] and say that they're trying to sell toys but

[01:31:29] I do feel like it's useful for this movie

[01:31:31] because it takes place over such a long span

[01:31:33] of time that every time the

[01:31:35] visual sensibility

[01:31:37] of the way he presents is

[01:31:39] different and giving

[01:31:41] an indication of how he's changed

[01:31:43] by the way no fucking toys for this movie

[01:31:45] no I'm upset about this

[01:31:47] I'm so sorry thank you

[01:31:49] you want a Dementus toy with his bleeding nipples

[01:31:51] I want every version

[01:31:53] you want tree Dementus and then you can be like

[01:31:55] a little tree on your desk James Grady wrote

[01:31:57] the piece about the color palette not Pilga

[01:31:59] sorry go on Stephen

[01:32:01] he's a charismatic leader he needs to like

[01:32:03] rebrand and update you understand it

[01:32:05] because as to get back to the plot

[01:32:07] like yes initially he is they are just

[01:32:09] a wandering horde

[01:32:11] this girl is delivered

[01:32:13] to them

[01:32:15] he has lost his child

[01:32:17] he's lost his family and a child

[01:32:19] is among them he's got this teddy bear as a

[01:32:21] totem an alternate version of a

[01:32:23] Mad Max I do

[01:32:25] do you because he claims that Furiosa

[01:32:27] is his daughter so he could be saying

[01:32:29] to Furiosa too it's

[01:32:31] tricky my read on it is that

[01:32:33] he is an alternate sort of pathway for

[01:32:35] a Mad Max someone who was driven crazy by

[01:32:37] the loss of their family

[01:32:39] and is just like you know basically

[01:32:41] he goes into this form of hedonism of

[01:32:43] like well the silver lining of society collapsing

[01:32:45] is no rules exist anymore

[01:32:47] and if I just throw caution

[01:32:49] to the wind I have nothing to lose

[01:32:51] I can fucking gain it all I can steal

[01:32:53] it all just through like being bigger

[01:32:55] than everyone else and what have you

[01:32:57] I think his imprinting upon

[01:32:59] Furiosa is like

[01:33:01] him fool heartedly

[01:33:03] trying to do something similar to her

[01:33:05] where it's like well if I just point to a new

[01:33:07] kid and say that's my child

[01:33:09] I will heal the wound of me

[01:33:11] losing my child I think it is

[01:33:13] why he's so attached to her even though he doesn't

[01:33:15] know how to relate to her because he's like

[01:33:17] I never got over the death of my kid

[01:33:19] I try to make fun light of it

[01:33:21] and just put a fucking teddy bear around my groin

[01:33:23] right but here a new kid

[01:33:25] new daughter great I'm a dad again

[01:33:27] sure that's my everyone's brain is

[01:33:29] also just scrambled and

[01:33:31] the thing at the end where he's like what about me

[01:33:33] what about the thing I went through and I just kind of want to say

[01:33:35] everyone in this

[01:33:37] world has suffered like

[01:33:39] there's no one in the Mad Max universe

[01:33:41] that's like I've actually had it pretty

[01:33:43] easy but that's his point

[01:33:45] anyone who survived this lost everyone

[01:33:47] else his point to me that he's

[01:33:49] making at the end is like

[01:33:51] we're all fucking suffering

[01:33:53] so you'd be an idiot not to also become

[01:33:55] a dementis

[01:33:57] a dementis what's your read

[01:33:59] on it Kyle I think

[01:34:01] we do

[01:34:03] feel something weirdly sympathetic

[01:34:05] some sort of pull of

[01:34:07] there's a real guy inside there with

[01:34:09] dementis which is almost

[01:34:11] something that makes him more dangerous

[01:34:13] so you kind of can't tell

[01:34:15] if what you're witnessing or what you're

[01:34:17] feeling from him is something

[01:34:19] real or is something

[01:34:21] that he uses to entice

[01:34:23] because very early on when he

[01:34:25] first encounters Furiosa

[01:34:27] everybody is like you know playing bad cop

[01:34:29] and he very you can see the

[01:34:31] gears in his head turn

[01:34:33] and he's like I'm going to play good cop

[01:34:35] go take care of this girl

[01:34:37] go wash her go give her food

[01:34:39] and then I will deliver her to

[01:34:41] her home tomorrow so you know

[01:34:43] he's looking for the best angle

[01:34:45] to play that's going to get him what he

[01:34:47] wants but also I mean

[01:34:49] it could be based on reality maybe he did

[01:34:51] have this family that this happened to

[01:34:53] and he's not afraid to use that as

[01:34:55] another tool in his arsenal

[01:34:57] if it will help him

[01:34:59] it's interesting I would rather not know

[01:35:01] you know I think that's what's enticing about

[01:35:03] trying to figure out the character

[01:35:05] until of course Dementis

[01:35:07] a Furiosa saga

[01:35:09] we'll get the Dementis prequel

[01:35:11] but like Miller said to me

[01:35:13] he's a trickster like he's modeled

[01:35:15] on like the classic trickster

[01:35:17] in any mythology or literature

[01:35:19] so yes you're not really supposed

[01:35:21] to totally believe anything he's saying 100%

[01:35:23] he's probably mixing up

[01:35:25] lore and fable and his own life

[01:35:27] and lord knows what else because that's

[01:35:29] what he's doing he's just you know

[01:35:31] yeah he's almost like

[01:35:33] a certain orange buffoon

[01:35:35] oh I said a different thing

[01:35:37] who would you say

[01:35:39] Ben and I were walking out of the theater

[01:35:41] and I went Dementis he's kind of got

[01:35:43] and Ben went don't fucking say it

[01:35:45] he's got

[01:35:47] what kind of energy would you say

[01:35:49] he's got Ricky T vibes

[01:35:51] he's a bit of a joker

[01:35:53] at least it's not Ricky Stenicky vibes

[01:35:55] that guy is so twisted

[01:35:57] he writes parody songs about jerking off

[01:35:59] is that what he does

[01:36:01] oh yeah

[01:36:05] it's after this that right then

[01:36:07] Mary returns the mother

[01:36:09] you know Furiosa's mother

[01:36:11] and she gets Furiosa far away

[01:36:13] but she's shot

[01:36:15] right

[01:36:17] she's wounded

[01:36:19] they blow up her backpack and there's fire

[01:36:21] yes

[01:36:23] the moment in the cave where she's like

[01:36:25] fucking drive away don't come back for me

[01:36:27] promise me this one thing take this seed

[01:36:29] she gives her the peach pit

[01:36:31] it's the pit that she will

[01:36:33] use to grow the tree

[01:36:35] and Furiosa thinks

[01:36:37] she can do both

[01:36:39] she starts to drive away and then goes back for her mother

[01:36:41] and then directly witnesses her mother

[01:36:43] being tortured to death

[01:36:45] being crucified by Dementus

[01:36:47] very sad

[01:36:49] and is now sort of semi-permanently

[01:36:51] caught in Dementus's clutches

[01:36:53] right and then we're just kind of

[01:36:55] taking our first jump I don't know when

[01:36:57] the chapter skip is the next chapter is lessons from

[01:36:59] the wasteland

[01:37:01] this is played all by a younger girl who is

[01:37:03] played young Tilda in 3000 years

[01:37:05] of longing as well

[01:37:07] Eli LaBrown who's wonderful she's got

[01:37:09] she's in the first hour of the film

[01:37:11] Anya eyes yes

[01:37:13] but like well she does and

[01:37:15] she also has them deepfake on to her

[01:37:17] right Dementus

[01:37:19] basically is the lead for the first hour

[01:37:21] of this movie I mean I'm watching it going

[01:37:23] like is this going to be a full two-hander

[01:37:25] like Fury Road he then

[01:37:27] once you get to present day Anya

[01:37:29] he recedes greatly

[01:37:31] until the end 100%

[01:37:33] but the first hour is basically driven by him

[01:37:35] it is interesting though because

[01:37:37] you know the criticism from some

[01:37:39] with Fury Road is that Max

[01:37:41] is a passive character and Furiosa

[01:37:43] is the lead and I did

[01:37:45] have a moment after she's

[01:37:47] captured by Dementus especially

[01:37:49] in that like second half hour in

[01:37:51] the film where Furiosa feels

[01:37:53] like the passive character felt kept

[01:37:55] in check and it's Dementus who

[01:37:57] is driving all of the action

[01:37:59] and then it evens back out but yes

[01:38:01] I had the same thought while watching

[01:38:03] it so

[01:38:05] second chapter they arrive

[01:38:07] they find a

[01:38:09] war boy and he's like

[01:38:11] am I in Valhalla and they're like what's up mate

[01:38:13] he's like I'm a war boy

[01:38:15] I'm from the Citadel

[01:38:17] and so they go to the Citadel

[01:38:19] this is where I'm really

[01:38:21] I think kind of like shocked at like

[01:38:23] how much this is a Mad Max Fury Road

[01:38:25] prequel I think right where they just go

[01:38:27] visit the Citadel earlier

[01:38:29] and they're like knock knock and Immortan Joe's like hello

[01:38:31] the organic mechanic is part of

[01:38:33] Dementus' group and you're like we're even

[01:38:35] bothering to like plug in side

[01:38:37] characters to their status quo

[01:38:39] and Dementus

[01:38:41] shows up and he tries to sort of incite

[01:38:43] a grassroots rebellion in the Citadel

[01:38:45] right that's his approach

[01:38:47] and Immortan Joe

[01:38:49] demonstrates the sort of like psychotic

[01:38:51] fidelity of the

[01:38:53] war boys and also

[01:38:55] as Miller put it to me like his ultimate

[01:38:57] advantage which is just gravity

[01:38:59] Miller's just like he's just like a medieval

[01:39:01] king it's just like he's just up there you can't

[01:39:03] get him this is chapter two lessons

[01:39:05] from the wasteland which is basically

[01:39:07] Dementus' big play can

[01:39:09] I seize

[01:39:11] the Citadel through

[01:39:13] charisma basically right

[01:39:15] and when

[01:39:17] Immortan Joe knocks him back down to earth

[01:39:19] it's a cool

[01:39:21] sequence right he goes well then what I need to do

[01:39:23] is seize one

[01:39:25] of the other towns

[01:39:27] he's all go to Gastown which is that's

[01:39:29] the one thing I thought when this movie was

[01:39:31] announced I was like surely we will see

[01:39:33] Gastown and the bullet farm right

[01:39:35] that'll be it which we do

[01:39:37] one's a big Gastown with oil

[01:39:39] everywhere and what is how would I almost

[01:39:41] describe it like a bullet farm

[01:39:43] yes

[01:39:45] right I mean I don't know what

[01:39:47] you guys think of all

[01:39:49] this stuff but it's very fun yeah he goes in and basically

[01:39:51] tries to like strong man his way

[01:39:53] to control and then get strategic

[01:39:55] and he's like okay I'm not overthrowing him

[01:39:57] but how do I get to a position

[01:39:59] of power I'm in bed with him

[01:40:01] and negotiate with him

[01:40:03] I love how cleverly conceived

[01:40:05] the sequence is of

[01:40:07] Joe saying pick a war boy

[01:40:09] and we have something to show you

[01:40:11] and again it builds that

[01:40:13] anticipation of a character thinking

[01:40:15] several steps ahead of us he refuses

[01:40:17] in this very Scientologist way

[01:40:19] of like if you answer a question you're

[01:40:21] giving the question asker power

[01:40:23] so he instead sends his craziest guy

[01:40:25] Smeg to pick instead so he

[01:40:27] doesn't have any culpability

[01:40:29] in the choice and then the war boy just

[01:40:31] fucking kamikazes blows up a ton

[01:40:33] of his guys and Morton shows

[01:40:35] like I got a million of these fucking dudes they're

[01:40:37] insane you're not but I

[01:40:39] wonder if this might not be

[01:40:41] a good time to start really drilling down

[01:40:43] on the CGI of it all because

[01:40:45] this is them swinging around

[01:40:47] a location we spent a lot

[01:40:49] of time in the in the first movie yes

[01:40:51] right yes and we saw

[01:40:53] it in the first movies well

[01:40:55] Fury Road had plenty of CGI

[01:40:57] it had plenty of compositing

[01:40:59] you know all these things that I think

[01:41:01] were somewhat more seamless in that movie

[01:41:03] and yes this movie

[01:41:05] has a surreal storybook quality

[01:41:07] including how the citadel

[01:41:09] is shot it feels

[01:41:11] dreamier in a sense

[01:41:13] maybe that's the more generous interpretation

[01:41:15] than it did in

[01:41:17] Fury Road that's partially because it has

[01:41:19] a different cinematographer the only major

[01:41:21] department head who did not come back

[01:41:23] from Fury Road because John Seale retired

[01:41:25] and is 80 yeah

[01:41:27] although he entices a lot

[01:41:29] of people back out of retirement for these films

[01:41:31] but I do feel

[01:41:33] like and this is where it started to kind

[01:41:35] of you know all come together

[01:41:37] in my head for

[01:41:39] as much as you can buy into the surreal

[01:41:41] storybook quality of it

[01:41:43] I need to believe they're at least outside

[01:41:45] when they're outside

[01:41:47] and there are a lot of

[01:41:49] moments in Furiosa where I don't

[01:41:51] even believe they're outside

[01:41:53] and that is a

[01:41:55] problem for a

[01:41:57] movie that is coming on the heels of a film

[01:41:59] Fury Road where you unquestionably

[01:42:01] believe absolutely everything

[01:42:03] that you're watching you think that

[01:42:05] what you're seeing is for real so

[01:42:07] when the war boy jumps again I love

[01:42:09] this in theory but I don't

[01:42:11] believe that war

[01:42:13] boy jump in the same way that I believe

[01:42:15] when a war boy jumps off

[01:42:17] the tanker early on in Fury Road

[01:42:19] and I thought a man died I thought

[01:42:21] we were watching a snow the classic Soderbergh quote

[01:42:23] the how is everyone not dead

[01:42:25] Simon Dugan was the

[01:42:27] DP on this movie who

[01:42:29] I think is an excellent cinematographer

[01:42:31] but let me list some credits

[01:42:33] I Robot the Mummy Tomb

[01:42:35] of the Dragon Emperor Knowing

[01:42:37] The Great Gatsby

[01:42:39] 300 Rise of an Empire

[01:42:41] Warcraft Disenchanted

[01:42:43] these are all films

[01:42:45] that have a very heightened

[01:42:47] sense of artificiality this almost seems to be

[01:42:49] a house style for him it is

[01:42:51] different than the John Seele look I know

[01:42:53] some of this is in post production but I also think

[01:42:55] a lot of this is how they shot

[01:42:57] the elements that they would later tile

[01:42:59] there is something

[01:43:01] that looks very like

[01:43:03] collagey like

[01:43:05] watching it the second time

[01:43:07] I was like this feels very similar to the

[01:43:09] way that Wes Anderson now uses

[01:43:11] digital effects where he's

[01:43:13] shooting all the elements for real in

[01:43:15] camera very often

[01:43:17] even if they are models or whatever

[01:43:19] digital mappings or what have you

[01:43:21] but then he is sort of compositing

[01:43:23] them in a deliberately flat

[01:43:25] way which for him we accept

[01:43:27] as like part of his stylization and

[01:43:29] for us this looks very different

[01:43:31] than the movie we all saw 9 years ago

[01:43:33] that much like Matrix Resurrections

[01:43:35] in relation to the original

[01:43:37] Matrix your response is

[01:43:39] last time you made the best looking

[01:43:41] shit in the world why would

[01:43:43] you change this at all

[01:43:45] and you know a lot of it is

[01:43:47] simply because they did not shoot it in

[01:43:49] Namibia this time you know

[01:43:51] as you were saying earlier Griffin you know they

[01:43:53] had planned to shoot Fury Road

[01:43:55] in the parts of Australia

[01:43:57] where they do end up shooting Furiosa

[01:43:59] but Fury Road

[01:44:01] you know it got rained out

[01:44:03] there was crazy growth right

[01:44:05] that was the problem

[01:44:07] they were delayed they said well let's table this

[01:44:09] and then we'll come back to it and then Doug

[01:44:11] the very wily producer of these films

[01:44:13] decided the easiest

[01:44:15] thing would be to shoot it in Namibia

[01:44:17] not easy for anybody

[01:44:19] involved but them

[01:44:21] and sent secretly

[01:44:23] all the vehicles to Namibia and

[01:44:25] notified Warner Brothers when they were already

[01:44:27] on the tanker on their way over

[01:44:29] so they had no choice but to come into

[01:44:31] Namibia as a location

[01:44:33] but Namibia had perfect weather conditions

[01:44:35] for shooting this kind of movie

[01:44:37] it was one of those places where

[01:44:39] 360 degrees around

[01:44:41] absolutely everything works

[01:44:43] for the film you are not taking

[01:44:45] elements out if anything you're adding them

[01:44:47] you're adding you know a cliff top or

[01:44:49] something like that but

[01:44:51] you can shoot absolutely everything you need

[01:44:53] in that desert whereas

[01:44:55] with Furiosa they

[01:44:57] were committed well they were not going to shoot

[01:44:59] in Namibia again because it drove everybody

[01:45:01] crazy it's very remote it added

[01:45:03] cost you know a million

[01:45:05] things they said we're shooting

[01:45:07] in Australia come hell or high water

[01:45:09] and then what happened again

[01:45:11] record rainfalls but they were still

[01:45:13] committed to doing it and Miller was like

[01:45:15] I can just CGI this I can

[01:45:17] take this all out in post I can do a lot

[01:45:19] of replacement so that's what

[01:45:21] happens but I do

[01:45:23] feel like there is still a

[01:45:25] discernible sense of

[01:45:27] they're not actually out in a desert

[01:45:29] that you can feel or that at least I can feel

[01:45:31] this is something else I want to say

[01:45:33] is I don't know that everybody

[01:45:35] is as tuned into this sort of thing

[01:45:37] you know when you go over to somebody's house

[01:45:39] I'll go over to someone's house someone

[01:45:41] who works in Hollywood they've got motion smoothing

[01:45:43] on and I'm like you got motion smoothing

[01:45:45] on and they are not aware that they have it

[01:45:47] so I'm

[01:45:49] realizing that not everybody is as

[01:45:51] clued into how a movie

[01:45:53] looks or should look or whatever

[01:45:55] as I may be you know I

[01:45:57] talked to a friend who watched

[01:45:59] Furiosa and never

[01:46:01] felt that there was anything to question

[01:46:03] until the Fury Road footage at

[01:46:05] the end and then could tell the difference

[01:46:07] so I don't

[01:46:09] know that everybody picks up on

[01:46:11] this sort of thing but I do feel like

[01:46:13] for me there was just

[01:46:15] I don't know

[01:46:17] a reality in that

[01:46:19] reality that was hard to locate sometimes

[01:46:21] It was also a pretty loud response

[01:46:23] when the first trailer came out

[01:46:25] and I think like when people go well the CGI

[01:46:27] is bad part of what they're responding

[01:46:29] to is to some degree

[01:46:31] there is a level of effort and

[01:46:33] pain you can feel in Fury

[01:46:35] Road whereas this movie feels

[01:46:37] a little more hermetic and controlled

[01:46:39] Right my assumption right had

[01:46:41] more just sort of been like right Fury Road was

[01:46:43] the nightmare upon all nightmares to make

[01:46:45] so there were sacrifices

[01:46:47] and fidelity made. He's 79 years old

[01:46:49] although he's spry

[01:46:51] I mean that motherfucker is spry

[01:46:53] I think there's also some tells

[01:46:55] and I noticed this watching Furiosa

[01:46:57] and Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes

[01:46:59] when a character jumps

[01:47:01] and it's like a motion captured

[01:47:03] character or something done entirely

[01:47:05] in the computer I never buy it

[01:47:07] I don't know why jumping is so hard

[01:47:09] to simulate. It's interesting.

[01:47:11] With Planet of the Apes I'm like

[01:47:13] yeah no I believe that these are like you know

[01:47:15] apes I believe what I'm seeing and then anytime

[01:47:17] they had to jump from one thing to another I was like

[01:47:19] that's fake. It's weight right

[01:47:21] it's just so hard to convey weight. And gravity

[01:47:23] when you're combining real environments

[01:47:25] and fake people or fake people in real environments

[01:47:27] or whatever it is. I also think

[01:47:29] like part of what was

[01:47:31] so astonishing about Fury Road might

[01:47:33] have been that shift to Namibia

[01:47:35] where like George Miller is literally

[01:47:37] dealing with a different palette now

[01:47:39] and his whole visual sensibility

[01:47:41] is evolving to the new resources

[01:47:43] he has around him and then he's building upon

[01:47:45] it right. This movie has backed

[01:47:47] itself into a corner where it's like you have

[01:47:49] to match locations

[01:47:51] and looks from the last

[01:47:53] movie and that calls

[01:47:55] the artificiality out more

[01:47:57] because you're like I know what this is supposed

[01:47:59] to look like. I've seen some

[01:48:01] people on social media defending the movie

[01:48:03] from the CGI criticisms and

[01:48:05] saying it's supposed to look like that against

[01:48:07] a real storybook quality

[01:48:09] and I get that but I know that there were people

[01:48:11] who worked on Furiosa

[01:48:13] who felt not

[01:48:15] great about the CGI

[01:48:17] you know. I mean Colin Gibson

[01:48:19] who was the production designer

[01:48:21] was very candid

[01:48:23] with me about he said that he felt

[01:48:25] like they went to the CGI well

[01:48:27] way too many times

[01:48:29] that you know

[01:48:31] that essentially they kept sort of solving

[01:48:33] things by saying we can do this in CGI

[01:48:35] and him feeling like

[01:48:37] it wasn't a patch on what they could have done

[01:48:39] if they were pushed to do it or

[01:48:41] were able to do it for real.

[01:48:43] And Sims I agree with you that I am pretty

[01:48:45] exhausted with CGI cops

[01:48:47] in our culture but I also think

[01:48:49] it is one of the many things that people

[01:48:51] cite as one of the

[01:48:53] graces of Fury Road

[01:48:55] over the last nine years. It's a thing

[01:48:57] it's painful to lose that. That you're

[01:48:59] like the CGI in that movie

[01:49:01] is like the topping it's the utmost

[01:49:03] layer it's the sprinkles it's the chocolate

[01:49:05] sauce but can you believe they actually built this

[01:49:07] complex sundae for real

[01:49:09] and put a camera on it

[01:49:11] and you feel that

[01:49:13] that like the base of this is always

[01:49:15] pretty fucking real

[01:49:17] and then the CGI is used just to clean it up

[01:49:19] augment it heighten remove

[01:49:21] the wires what have you and this movie

[01:49:23] exists in a far more

[01:49:25] it feels weightless

[01:49:27] in a lot of ways.

[01:49:29] But it's interesting because this is part of what George

[01:49:31] really responds to he loves

[01:49:33] new technology he's obviously been using it

[01:49:35] for a while and things like Happy Feet

[01:49:37] and I think having

[01:49:39] that template of tools

[01:49:41] keeps him really engaged and you do

[01:49:43] see this a lot from

[01:49:45] directors you would expect it from like

[01:49:47] a James Cameron or Robert Zemeckis

[01:49:49] or directors you wouldn't like an Ang

[01:49:51] Lee where the thing that really

[01:49:53] makes them want to commit to a project is

[01:49:55] the technological frontier. I can use this

[01:49:57] I can apply my toolbox. Yeah. Let's also

[01:49:59] say I mean because this

[01:50:01] movie looks very similar to

[01:50:03] 3000 Years of Longing. Sure

[01:50:05] A movie I love. I love as well

[01:50:07] That surreal storybook quality is perfect

[01:50:09] for 3000 Years of Longing. Totally. And you

[01:50:11] understand him applying that technology not just

[01:50:13] because that movie is made in like deep

[01:50:15] in the pandemic but also because

[01:50:17] this thing needs like a billion different

[01:50:19] locations because you're going through different

[01:50:21] stories and different eras. You're not

[01:50:23] going to be able to build all of these palaces

[01:50:25] for all the different Sultans and all

[01:50:27] the different stories. And so you

[01:50:29] accept oh here's the part of this movie that's real

[01:50:31] that's set in a fucking hotel

[01:50:33] set and when you go into the stories

[01:50:35] it is kind of weird painterly

[01:50:37] CGI. It does

[01:50:39] feel like he carried over a lot of maybe what

[01:50:41] he learned on that movie to this

[01:50:43] I think it's

[01:50:45] most glaring in the sequence

[01:50:47] we were just talking about because

[01:50:49] again people are flying through the air

[01:50:51] and then obviously

[01:50:53] later on you have

[01:50:55] the sort of crown

[01:50:57] jewel set piece

[01:50:59] with Praetorian Jack

[01:51:01] driving the war rig

[01:51:03] right. Just a gigantic fight with

[01:51:05] the parasailors and all that stuff. Which is the peak

[01:51:07] of the movie. Which is the action peak

[01:51:09] of the movie for sure and is

[01:51:11] you know is pretty seamless

[01:51:13] like close out chapter two lessons

[01:51:15] from the wasteland. He successfully pulls

[01:51:17] off this heist. He goes back to negotiate

[01:51:19] with Immortan Joe. He takes over Gastown

[01:51:21] and then he's right now he has a position

[01:51:23] He gets his nipples ripped off. He does

[01:51:25] But he's into it. Yeah

[01:51:27] He is. They're pervs when it comes to nipples

[01:51:29] in this franchise. Maybe

[01:51:31] the most nipply of all major action

[01:51:33] franchises. Nipple focus

[01:51:35] For sure

[01:51:37] But Immortan

[01:51:39] Joe insists on getting Furiosa

[01:51:41] who Dementus is now dubbed

[01:51:43] little D. Little Dementus

[01:51:45] She is

[01:51:47] handed over with some

[01:51:49] reluctancy but also it's like as much as

[01:51:51] Dementus I do think has some perverse

[01:51:53] care for her. His quest

[01:51:55] for power is like greater than everything

[01:51:57] else. Right. And from the second

[01:51:59] they like hand her off she's plotting

[01:52:01] her escape. She makes the wig

[01:52:03] She fucking attacks Rictus Erectus

[01:52:05] She gets away

[01:52:07] Rebuilds herself as a war boy

[01:52:09] We cut ahead as you see the passage of time

[01:52:11] through the tree again and then

[01:52:13] it's chapter three which is the stowaway

[01:52:15] which is

[01:52:17] The majority of this is

[01:52:19] what do they call it? The highway to nowhere

[01:52:21] was what they called it when they were filming

[01:52:23] Stowaway to nowhere

[01:52:25] This this incredible

[01:52:27] fucking war rig

[01:52:29] sequence which is like a thing

[01:52:31] that he's now doing for the

[01:52:33] third time basically

[01:52:35] I turned to Ben the second

[01:52:37] this sequence was done and I said

[01:52:39] this is the best shit on earth

[01:52:41] It doesn't get better than this

[01:52:43] I remember early because I walked out with

[01:52:45] David Ehrlich and he was like look

[01:52:47] I love that that movie's different. I love

[01:52:49] you know I didn't it's not

[01:52:51] like I wanted it to be the same but

[01:52:53] then when you see the action like

[01:52:55] nobody does anything like that but him

[01:52:57] so you are kind of like I want as

[01:52:59] much of this as I can have. And the last movie

[01:53:01] he built the entire thing

[01:53:03] out of that. Yes he did

[01:53:05] Yeah but yet again like it's

[01:53:07] cool. It would be so easy in

[01:53:09] the way that this movie suffers a little bit

[01:53:11] in other respects to have this

[01:53:13] sequence be like it's good

[01:53:15] but it's not as good as Fury Road. Right

[01:53:17] I'm not saying it's better than the sequences

[01:53:19] in Fury Road but I was at no point

[01:53:21] comparing it like I was just

[01:53:23] so wrapped up. Interesting

[01:53:25] I mean look there's there's so many

[01:53:27] great things about this sequence. Right. You mentioned

[01:53:29] you know the guys with the parachutes

[01:53:31] obviously that's fucking amazing

[01:53:33] the same feeling as

[01:53:35] seeing the pole cats for the first time. Right

[01:53:37] Loved it. It's so well shot

[01:53:39] it is more real than

[01:53:41] some of the other action sequences that we

[01:53:43] see in the film so all to the better

[01:53:45] for that. I think the

[01:53:47] reason why

[01:53:49] it's not to my mind

[01:53:51] as successful as Fury Road

[01:53:53] is the context of what the characters

[01:53:55] are doing what they're trying to do

[01:53:57] who's attacking them. It's all

[01:53:59] a little bit more vague

[01:54:01] than the very simple thing

[01:54:03] of in Fury Road

[01:54:05] they're trying to get away. They gotta get

[01:54:07] that way. They are trying to get to a destination

[01:54:09] as fast as they can before anyone

[01:54:11] figures it out and then once people figure

[01:54:13] it out it's like well get them away from us

[01:54:15] Right. I think that the average

[01:54:17] movie goer may not even pick

[01:54:19] up on like okay

[01:54:21] is Furiosa stowed away

[01:54:23] because she's working on the war rig because

[01:54:25] she's like you know

[01:54:27] she's stowing away so that

[01:54:29] she can escape the war rig. Right, that's her job

[01:54:31] essentially. We have not really

[01:54:33] met Praetorian Jack. No this is

[01:54:35] our introduction to Praetorian Jack. They're being

[01:54:37] attacked by

[01:54:39] sort of no name characters

[01:54:41] so those things all make it

[01:54:43] a little fuzzier. Right

[01:54:45] they are spin offs from Dementus'

[01:54:47] gang those guys. Right

[01:54:49] Yeah they're in the gang initially and we

[01:54:51] sort of overhear that yeah they've kind of gone

[01:54:53] their own way. But I wouldn't hate

[01:54:55] if Dementus himself were in that gang

[01:54:57] because that would have been giving us

[01:54:59] that would have been reconnecting to

[01:55:01] Furiosa that would have been

[01:55:03] working with characters we know. I

[01:55:05] think it's maybe a little

[01:55:07] too late in the movie

[01:55:09] to be to have

[01:55:11] the major sequence you know

[01:55:13] to have them antagonized by people

[01:55:15] to whom we don't have a strong

[01:55:17] relationship. We're over an hour into the film now

[01:55:19] it is a sequence that I feel like

[01:55:21] is he's almost

[01:55:23] iteratively banking on

[01:55:25] you're not going to ask those questions

[01:55:27] and you're not going to complain about

[01:55:29] the lack of those like connection points

[01:55:31] because I'm doing the thing

[01:55:33] you know happened in these movies

[01:55:35] I'm doing the guitar solo

[01:55:37] you know. The other thing is it's iterative

[01:55:39] part of the delight of this

[01:55:41] sequence is the amount of

[01:55:43] things the war rig can do

[01:55:45] the way she keeps moving to a new

[01:55:47] part of it and like pulling some lever fixing

[01:55:49] something. The bolo truck nuts. Right

[01:55:51] but like you know and so like

[01:55:53] her kind of growing

[01:55:55] seamlessness with the vehicle

[01:55:57] itself obviously what Jack

[01:55:59] is seeing in her you know

[01:56:01] in that skill right. And that she's

[01:56:03] learning it in real time. Her resourcefulness

[01:56:05] is I feel like the thing Anya Taylor-Joy

[01:56:07] keeps talking about in the interviews

[01:56:09] of like. But it's real. It's appealing.

[01:56:11] They spent like 80 days shooting this

[01:56:13] one sequence she's like there's 80 days where I don't

[01:56:15] say a word but the narrative

[01:56:17] beats of it are so clear even if it's a little

[01:56:19] maddening to have to play out

[01:56:21] because it's like every moment

[01:56:23] of it is her learning something

[01:56:25] the truck does and figuring out

[01:56:27] how to use it to her advantage or against

[01:56:29] someone else. Right.

[01:56:31] It's also for the fuzziness of the

[01:56:33] sort of external stakes the external

[01:56:35] context of the sequence

[01:56:37] there are great stakes within

[01:56:39] the sequence which is like the number one thing is

[01:56:41] you know the little war

[01:56:43] boy asking is it time to do the

[01:56:45] bombing knocker yet. And you're like so

[01:56:47] you're waiting for like this big thing to happen

[01:56:49] and it's like a lot of not yet

[01:56:51] that is such a simple but effective

[01:56:53] way of building suspense

[01:56:55] you know it's great. I cannot

[01:56:57] wait to see whatever the bombing knocker is

[01:56:59] you know it's gonna be good. Cabbage

[01:57:01] boy was what I kept calling him in my head.

[01:57:03] I do feel like yeah

[01:57:05] the stakes of this are mostly relationship

[01:57:07] based because it is

[01:57:09] about her and him and it's also about her and

[01:57:11] like Praetorian Jack. I'm also

[01:57:13] so deeply in the bag for

[01:57:15] Burke. It's same. As a performer

[01:57:17] that the second I see him

[01:57:19] I'm pretty much just like

[01:57:21] as much of this guy as you can give

[01:57:23] me. Yeah but the stakes of this sequence are

[01:57:25] can she win him over? Sure.

[01:57:27] Can she sort of impress him

[01:57:29] can she show her value to him

[01:57:31] in a way where she

[01:57:33] he will they

[01:57:35] can unite. He

[01:57:37] I mean what do you make of Burke in the movie?

[01:57:39] I love him in this.

[01:57:41] It's such unlikely casting

[01:57:43] especially because he replaced

[01:57:45] Yahya Abdul-Mateen. Very

[01:57:47] different. I can't imagine

[01:57:49] going from one to the other. I can

[01:57:51] imagine what Yahya would have done with the

[01:57:53] movie and he probably would have been good like

[01:57:55] he's got a George Miller

[01:57:57] vibe. I think he was just too burned out

[01:57:59] when it came he'd been working

[01:58:01] nonstop and you know

[01:58:03] you don't want to go burned out into a Mad

[01:58:05] Max production. But Tom Burke

[01:58:07] usually plays like compelling little

[01:58:09] pricks. Yeah

[01:58:11] He's hot in this. He's really

[01:58:13] hot. I wouldn't have thought that you could make him feel

[01:58:17] hot and real

[01:58:19] in this kind of franchise

[01:58:21] in this kind of get up

[01:58:23] but there is something

[01:58:25] I think what's most appealing is his sense

[01:58:27] of stillness. Everybody else

[01:58:29] is peacocking like crazy

[01:58:31] in this world and this is

[01:58:33] someone who just has a very quiet

[01:58:35] confidence and that's

[01:58:37] it's really magnetic.

[01:58:39] Such a George Miller move to look

[01:58:41] at an actor with like a

[01:58:43] corrected cleft palate

[01:58:45] scar and go like that's a good

[01:58:47] start. Right let's give it all the way up

[01:58:49] 70% all the way up.

[01:58:51] I also like even though that

[01:58:53] there's room to think otherwise

[01:58:55] but essentially as the movie

[01:58:57] presents it their connection is

[01:58:59] platonic. There's a moment

[01:59:01] where it seems like maybe they

[01:59:03] could have an off screen thing

[01:59:05] so you could read that in if you wanted

[01:59:07] to but I think it's extremely

[01:59:09] powerful that the most

[01:59:11] romantic

[01:59:13] thing they do, the thing they do

[01:59:15] to codify their bond

[01:59:17] is not kiss or have sex

[01:59:19] it's to put their foreheads together

[01:59:21] something that she took as

[01:59:23] the utmost sign of affection

[01:59:25] and respect in her childhood

[01:59:27] to see a sort of

[01:59:29] romantic lead if you will that

[01:59:31] like respects her. That's

[01:59:33] like the number one thing that

[01:59:35] he can reach is just like an

[01:59:37] overriding respect. I see

[01:59:39] you and I know you're good

[01:59:41] that's really enticing

[01:59:43] Yeah I mean he's like

[01:59:45] the one force for good

[01:59:47] in this movie. He is like the

[01:59:49] one sort of like steady

[01:59:51] He's been through

[01:59:53] the same trauma that everyone else has been through

[01:59:55] the end of the world and

[01:59:57] alludes to loss in

[01:59:59] his life as well and he is right. He is

[02:00:01] the opposite of Dementus and that he is not

[02:00:03] like this just weird mirror

[02:00:05] version of like you know

[02:00:07] daddy and has not

[02:00:09] allowed it to curdle him and

[02:00:11] sort of says to her like if you

[02:00:13] spend time under me I will

[02:00:15] teach you the skill set to be able

[02:00:17] to get whatever it is you want.

[02:00:19] He can see the sense of like

[02:00:21] drive and longing in her there are some objective

[02:00:23] you have I will give you the tools to

[02:00:25] get there and I will let you go. Obviously

[02:00:27] he's styled like Furiosa

[02:00:29] will be styled. He's covered in motor oil

[02:00:31] essentially. And styled kind of

[02:00:33] like Max Eustace. He's styled like both of

[02:00:35] them which I do think adds an interesting

[02:00:37] wrinkle to Fury Road

[02:00:39] in the way that Furiosa perceives

[02:00:41] Max where she's sort of gauging

[02:00:43] out is he like these other guys

[02:00:45] I've met or is he like Praetorian Jack

[02:00:47] Is he the rare right. This guy somewhere in

[02:00:49] the middle. Which he kind of is

[02:00:51] Right but he's great.

[02:00:53] So the reveal at the end of this

[02:00:55] sequence is that she has long hair

[02:00:57] that she's a girl. Yeah

[02:00:59] This is something that I have complicated

[02:01:01] feelings about.

[02:01:03] I think as a visual reveal

[02:01:05] it's great and powerful

[02:01:07] it's striking. There's

[02:01:09] a couple sequences where her long hair is

[02:01:11] used to great cinematic effect

[02:01:13] Unfortunately and I think

[02:01:15] the prequel of this

[02:01:17] prequelness of this movie compounds

[02:01:19] this issue. It doesn't

[02:01:21] feel like it makes

[02:01:23] sense for her to keep long

[02:01:25] hair. She is determined

[02:01:27] to not be found

[02:01:29] out. Determined to blend in

[02:01:31] with these men. For her

[02:01:33] to risk an extremely

[02:01:35] easy reveal with this long

[02:01:37] hair feels like

[02:01:39] folly to me and I do get

[02:01:41] the sense because we see

[02:01:43] young Furiosa shave her head

[02:01:45] that maybe in the original

[02:01:47] conception of it. Well I should

[02:01:49] say in the original

[02:01:51] original conception Furiosa never had

[02:01:53] a shaved head. This is only something that

[02:01:55] Charlize brought to the character. Brought

[02:01:57] to George Miller as an idea.

[02:01:59] So obviously they want to work that

[02:02:01] back into the prequel. I thought

[02:02:03] that they had an incredibly effective smart

[02:02:05] resourceful moment where young

[02:02:07] Furiosa... She's using it as a way to escape

[02:02:09] right? Yeah uses it as a way to

[02:02:11] escape and then blend in with the war boys

[02:02:13] so for her to grow it back

[02:02:15] I think that's where you start

[02:02:17] rubbing up on

[02:02:19] some of the hand wavy stuff

[02:02:21] like okay you're conveying that you

[02:02:23] are a full life girl and

[02:02:25] everyone around you can

[02:02:27] probably put the pieces together as to who

[02:02:29] you are. Didn't I get this? You know I know that

[02:02:31] for Anya, for

[02:02:33] Leslie Vanderwalt who ran hair and makeup

[02:02:35] they both were like we're not sure about this

[02:02:37] but Miller loved the hair so much. It's a

[02:02:39] weird double B. Didn't I get it

[02:02:41] from your profile? I can't remember.

[02:02:43] Miller just loved her hair right? He's like

[02:02:45] don't cut your hair. Your hair looks great. Yeah.

[02:02:47] But it's a weird

[02:02:49] double B because you have the first moment where you're like well

[02:02:51] that's why she shaves her head. Great makes sense.

[02:02:53] Then she puts the cap on to hide and

[02:02:55] you assume that she's been shaving her head regularly

[02:02:57] in these years that she's been living

[02:02:59] fucking underground

[02:03:01] with the other guys and then it's like

[02:03:03] oh no, now she has to shave it a second

[02:03:05] time symbolically at a moment

[02:03:07] of like emotional import

[02:03:09] and I do feel like they do a similar thing with the

[02:03:11] arm where when she

[02:03:13] first gets her arm sort of like

[02:03:15] caught in the truck chase

[02:03:17] it's so frenetic

[02:03:19] and I'm like oh it's that it's kind of

[02:03:21] interesting that her arm loss is such a

[02:03:23] meaningless sort of moment in the chaos of

[02:03:25] everything. Visually you cannot

[02:03:27] clock that in fact her arm is not

[02:03:29] It's not gone. It's severed. Right

[02:03:31] it's just been severed. And then there's the second

[02:03:33] moment like five minutes later where

[02:03:35] she detaches her own arm

[02:03:37] to escape. She makes that sacrifice

[02:03:39] but it's a little bit lost in the

[02:03:41] like I thought we went through this one time

[02:03:43] I agree Griffin. I guess

[02:03:45] that second example is somewhat more effective

[02:03:47] because at least they sell the hell out of the moment

[02:03:49] of the missing arm but I

[02:03:51] loved that

[02:03:53] you know and I literally

[02:03:55] yelped in my seat when

[02:03:57] her arm is smashed in

[02:03:59] between those two vehicles because it comes out

[02:04:01] of nowhere. It doesn't

[02:04:03] feel teased like it's not like a

[02:04:05] It doesn't. When will John Locke be

[02:04:07] in his wheelchair. It does not feel like

[02:04:09] the boring prequel shit of like

[02:04:11] and that's why 3PO is a different arm

[02:04:13] and the fact that it happens in the middle

[02:04:15] of a sequence where she just pulls back

[02:04:17] into the car and she's sort of in

[02:04:19] shock but she has to stay in

[02:04:21] a Mad Max movie like she doesn't have

[02:04:23] time to mourn the arm.

[02:04:25] Praetorian Jack

[02:04:27] kicks her out of the war rig as

[02:04:29] she requests and circles back to her

[02:04:31] as we said. And it's like yeah I can

[02:04:33] teach you. That's basically the end

[02:04:35] of chapter three which is

[02:04:37] the stowaway. Then we go into homeward

[02:04:39] which is like she's now been

[02:04:41] fully. I was about to say we're sort of cutting

[02:04:43] ahead. Yeah in terms of like

[02:04:45] we don't see Jack teaching her

[02:04:47] we don't see them going on war rig adventures

[02:04:49] that sounds like a fun action

[02:04:51] movie to me. Yeah but I understand

[02:04:53] Miller being like you get it like

[02:04:55] right the it's

[02:04:57] distilled in the one action sequence of them working

[02:04:59] together. Chapters four and five and one

[02:05:01] and two are more continuous. There are big jumps

[02:05:03] between two and three and three and four. Right

[02:05:05] yeah. But it is interesting

[02:05:07] again to see her return

[02:05:09] to the citadel sort of under

[02:05:11] the auspices of Pretorian

[02:05:13] Jack but like with their hair just out

[02:05:15] and she's like yes I am

[02:05:17] a woman and

[02:05:19] you're dealing with it. And

[02:05:21] at this point in the movie you're like

[02:05:23] she's 90 percent of the way to the

[02:05:25] Furiosa we meet in Fury Road.

[02:05:27] Yeah but I do think it's a key thing

[02:05:29] and potentially a thing

[02:05:31] that people could bump up against where it's like

[02:05:33] in this male dominated

[02:05:35] threatening society

[02:05:37] you know she's fully broadcasting

[02:05:39] who she is and

[02:05:41] you know it's meant to be like that's how much

[02:05:43] respect Jack wields but

[02:05:45] I do think that the original conception

[02:05:47] of this like where she was

[02:05:49] a much more or at least when

[02:05:51] the way Charlize thought of it

[02:05:53] which is like you know she's a shaved

[02:05:55] head woman who's like blended into the

[02:05:57] war boys and that's how she builds her way back

[02:05:59] up like might

[02:06:01] have been a more plausible thing.

[02:06:03] There's just for as much dangerous

[02:06:05] as is set up

[02:06:07] for everybody to just

[02:06:09] be like I guess we'll be chill about

[02:06:11] the fact that like you know

[02:06:13] your trusted lieutenant is

[02:06:15] this woman and the timeline

[02:06:17] kind of checks out with this missing girl

[02:06:19] it is it's a thing to bump up

[02:06:21] to not even give it one scene

[02:06:23] where like Praetorian Jack marches her

[02:06:25] back into the Citadel and goes like

[02:06:27] she is under me now you

[02:06:29] all have to accept her and

[02:06:31] have like Rick Diserectus go like boo boo

[02:06:33] what like it is

[02:06:35] it's a big leap in

[02:06:37] everything we know about this world I will also

[02:06:39] say just in terms of how I had always inferred

[02:06:41] shit from Fury Road I mean you said the

[02:06:43] like infertility thing

[02:06:45] and obviously I know this is

[02:06:47] not a trait that would be passed on genetically

[02:06:49] but these two movies are

[02:06:51] so obsessed with this idea of physical

[02:06:53] perfection in like a deteriorating

[02:06:55] radioactive world.

[02:06:57] Obviously the whole idea is that Joe wants

[02:06:59] an heir that is

[02:07:01] not a half-life or a

[02:07:03] radioactive mutant person or whatever

[02:07:05] I had always assumed that

[02:07:07] part of like Furiosa being

[02:07:09] one of these war rig drivers but also being

[02:07:11] this like vaguely cybernetic woman with a

[02:07:13] shaved head was that

[02:07:15] like at some point she loses her arm

[02:07:17] and that loses her value as one of

[02:07:19] his wives.

[02:07:21] She no longer looks like one of the models

[02:07:23] that he keeps. You thought wrong baby

[02:07:25] I did. I mean I don't

[02:07:27] bump up against this stuff because they're stupid

[02:07:29] like Rick Diserectus and Squirtus

[02:07:31] they are very stupid

[02:07:33] but even Immortan Joe

[02:07:35] he's you know smart in a very

[02:07:37] brute force medieval sort of a way

[02:07:39] he's smarter than Dementus

[02:07:41] right? He seems to have a little

[02:07:43] more sort of tactical acumen than Dementus

[02:07:45] when Dementus

[02:07:47] tries his big coup at the end

[02:07:49] of the movie. Joe seems kind of

[02:07:51] aware of the sort of

[02:07:53] game that's being played. Right

[02:07:55] yes they're all stupid but like

[02:07:57] literally the dominant thing they do

[02:07:59] is imprison beautiful women

[02:08:01] Yes right

[02:08:03] so you do have to

[02:08:05] I mean look this is all

[02:08:07] implied and sometimes it's better

[02:08:09] for a movie to imply than have to spell

[02:08:11] it out but I do think

[02:08:13] it confuses the stakes

[02:08:15] of the movie somewhat. I would agree

[02:08:17] with that. I think Joe is also like

[02:08:19] he

[02:08:21] the thing he is clever about

[02:08:23] is letting people project things

[02:08:25] onto him. It is part of the

[02:08:27] sort of like peacocking of this whole

[02:08:29] but also that he surrounds himself

[02:08:31] with like 10 people who he lets

[02:08:33] speak for him as trusted authorities

[02:08:35] versus Dementus being like shut up shut up

[02:08:37] let me speak. Joe is like

[02:08:39] it's more evocative if I let other people

[02:08:41] say the shit and I stand behind and people go

[02:08:43] like wow that guy is so powerful he doesn't

[02:08:45] even need to talk

[02:08:47] which does mean the more time we spend with Joe

[02:08:49] the kind of less interesting

[02:08:51] he becomes. Yeah the

[02:08:53] less of Joe the better certainly

[02:08:55] I almost

[02:08:57] struggled with just having him show

[02:08:59] up and be like hello

[02:09:01] I'm just kind of like

[02:09:03] do not become addicted to water is

[02:09:05] just the most incredible introductions

[02:09:07] to a person a character like

[02:09:09] this. Yeah. And like he only

[02:09:11] in Fury Road he just howls

[02:09:13] and right like there's no

[02:09:15] point when he sits down he's like so where do we think

[02:09:17] they went? There's not scenes

[02:09:19] like that. In this

[02:09:21] you have this as time has moved forward

[02:09:23] Dementus is in charge of Gastown

[02:09:25] unsurprisingly he's really bad

[02:09:27] at it. He's not like

[02:09:29] like whatever this future

[02:09:31] needs in terms of just a planned

[02:09:33] leader planning leader like so

[02:09:35] Gastown's in ruin that's why Joe wants to

[02:09:37] take it over. I remember when we saw

[02:09:39] the first trailer David and you and I both

[02:09:41] had the exact same takeaway which

[02:09:43] was oh Hemsworth is playing

[02:09:45] young Immortan Joe right? I first

[02:09:47] wondered that. I imagine this character

[02:09:49] he's playing will end up getting the bottom half

[02:09:51] of his face ripped off and there was whatever

[02:09:53] flash of Immortan Joe in the trailer where you were

[02:09:55] like that's probably Hemsworth in the makeup

[02:09:57] at the end of the movie whatever and when the second

[02:09:59] trailer came out or when they announced that

[02:10:01] she was playing the role I

[02:10:03] was genuinely surprised that they wanted

[02:10:05] these guys to co-exist

[02:10:07] in the movie because as

[02:10:09] you said Kyle it feels like

[02:10:11] isn't her whole thing just about

[02:10:13] the relationship to

[02:10:15] Immortan Joe? Well I do

[02:10:17] think that's tricky because

[02:10:19] ultimately the climax in her

[02:10:21] revenge is against Dementus and we're

[02:10:23] losing a little bit of that with all

[02:10:25] the Immortan Joe stuff. It's

[02:10:27] interesting to bring in Dementus

[02:10:29] and have him

[02:10:31] so strongly in opposition

[02:10:33] to Joe because

[02:10:35] Dementus comes off like

[02:10:37] the crazier one and it makes

[02:10:39] Joe seem more savvy and strategic

[02:10:41] dare I say more normal

[02:10:43] like it's almost like

[02:10:45] bringing in Niles to make Frazier look

[02:10:47] more normal. So Dementus

[02:10:49] is the Niles. Very well said.

[02:10:51] And it's interesting I mean

[02:10:53] like you could be into that

[02:10:55] it's kind of humanizing Dementus

[02:10:57] making us kind of

[02:10:59] get him a little bit more or

[02:11:01] maybe not. I mean it's the prequel problem

[02:11:03] yeah it's the prequel. It would be impossible for this

[02:11:05] movie to just not really address

[02:11:07] anything. No. But

[02:11:09] right every little bit you learn you're kind of like

[02:11:11] did I need to know that? I'm not sure.

[02:11:13] But at the same time I cannot

[02:11:15] help but like world building.

[02:11:17] So I am kind of like yeah