Planet of the Apes with Matt Singer

[00:00:01] Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check I'm not taking the bait It's a beautiful voice He did Kilowog himself

[00:00:47] Colonel Attar himself Kilowog and Attar He was the Darth Maul of this movie Attar was the front and center in the marketing Partially because his armor is cool, the makeup is incredible Everyone was all in on MCD We were buying in We were a recent Oscar nominee

[00:01:19] This is his first post Oscar performance He'd been in the whole nine yards That comes out a week after he's nominated Here's my first big career decision Everyone's like, oh my god, he could play an ape Which now I think those headlines would get a little shaky

[00:01:43] A little shaky I don't know if it's just the idea of like, oh my god, he's such a physical imposing Put him in a big block but twisted mind of Tim Burton Gave us a bullet die right Just was leaving this to you Here's a hot take

[00:02:07] There's very little Burton in this movie Because even Alice in Wonderland which is the other movie of his that I hate These are the only two that I hate That movie is like, fuck, this is like too much Burton Without any sort of center

[00:02:25] Whereas this is just like, I don't know what this is There's one scene where I feel like, oh this is a Tim Burton movie Which one? The scene with all the apes sitting around the dinner table Which is like the Beetlejuice scene with apes

[00:02:37] And you literally have Otho Yeah, Otho is the ring of tango Other than that scene The stuff that feels Burton-y is where he's like, let's get into a pie society Right Yeah, well because you know, I mean we've been going through the podcast The podcast has been chimped

[00:02:55] And the cutesy chimpanzee stuff, I guess The actual chimpanzee Oh, you're talking about Pericles? The real chimp You're talking about Pericles when I talk five movie friends? Maybe the only thing I like about this movie? He's a cool chimp I mean look, Pericles Fox

[00:03:13] This podcast is called Blank Check with Gryffin and Dave Yup It's about podcasts It's about filmographies I did not sleep much last night It's about filmographies, direct use of massive success

[00:03:25] Early on in their career, again in a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want Sometimes those checks clear And sometimes they bounce baby This is a May series on the films of Tim Burton Okay

[00:03:35] And this is when we're fully getting into sort of The key The transition point Where things start to go bad This is it The transition from good, yes Too bad It's the transition from as you're saying Well, but Tim Burton He's there and he made the movie

[00:03:55] Maybe it's not your favorite Sleepy Hollow is a fully defensible movie This is an indefensible movie Correct The May series is of course called Our guest today is of course Matt Singer Of course The only person who is willing To sit through Planet of the Apes

[00:04:15] No, we said please Come save us from the planet of the Apes I could often think of so many people who unfortunately would have been like Let me have that movie I think we threw you way in advance You like the Apes Well the good ones, yes

[00:04:29] And we were like this is such a tough movie to talk about You like the good ones like General Crow That's a good ape character I like the good ones like Limbo Limbo He's not good, he's bad He's a slave trainer One bad thing about him

[00:04:45] One, it's just a mate in the slave trade Two bad things about him Doesn't dress great His teeth are not outstanding Sure Dental hygiene could use work I'm gonna get to the big question right off the bat Which is the better performance in this Giamatti or Roth

[00:05:03] I think Giamatti by leaps and bounds I unfortunately agree The makeup is given a great performance But I think Roth's performance is just like Like over and over and over again Who's Roth in this? He's the main bad guy Fade, General Fade General Fade Bernie, you don't remember

[00:05:23] General Fade I think he channeled all of his obvious fury At having to sit in a freaking makeup chair For eight hours a day Or whatever he had to do He also suffered many injuries In the film and in this movie

[00:05:37] And also the thing where they were like We know you hate Charlton Heston in guns You have this big scene where he talks to you about a gun For a while You're just gonna have to do that I always, I just dug into that

[00:05:49] All the stories about him not wanting to shoot That scene not wanting to work with Charlton Heston I remember reading about that at the time Like in Empire Magazine I read that scene at the time Strongly anti-gun scene I look at that scene as pretty subversive

[00:06:03] That they got Charlton Heston To say like guns were the downfall Of our society But he, Tim Roth interpreted that scene As pro-gun, I guess maybe he just didn't want to be In the same room as Charlton Heston End a gun Talking about guns It's an odd scene

[00:06:21] I'll give it that Dying Charlton Heston In eight makeup, look over there A gun inside a vase That red thing There's no way it could have ever fit inside that Unless I hewned it A blood teardrop How did they get it inside it?

[00:06:39] There's no way to get it inside Hewn is a good poem It sounds right They literally had to make the vase around that gun To get it inside it And it didn't stick to the walls somehow It was perfectly

[00:06:53] This is the kind of crap I was thinking about How soon after this film does Charlton Heston die? Oh, you mean like the actor? Yes, Charlton Heston the man The gun loving man He died in 2008, so he had a few years to go But still

[00:07:11] You go like that's pretty Mean to ask a 75 year old To sit through six hours of makeup Right Do you think he just did it once? I was gonna say he must have done it one time That's one day

[00:07:25] And maybe it was one of those things where they put it on him in the bed It's like a half job Like they just sort of laid it on top of him Even still the face stuff The makeup in this is Incredible It's an argument

[00:07:39] For that you never should have stopped If this is what you could do in 2001 imagine what you could do now I know Cause this still looks better than any CGI stuff 100% And you look at the original like plan of the apes I love Matt that you love

[00:07:53] David, I think you like I like but I have not seen all five Definitely not I've seen the first two That might be it There's literally like one application piece And it doesn't have a lot of range or flexibility It's a mask everyone has the same thing

[00:08:09] They painted different colors This they're like Really expressive and distinct And unique and he's got a different species And he's working with each actor's face so well Sure Rick Baker does all these interviews where he talked About getting the cat and he's like

[00:08:25] Tim Roth is going to be a nightmare because his nose Is so big Giamatti is going to be great because his face is flat His nose is also being insulted Yeah, he talks about it So much how he was like approaching All the different faces

[00:08:39] And then this kind of becomes the last Makeup movie of this size Do you think Rick Baker just wishes people had No features like no nose at all No lips, no ears Like they could just like Our faces were just blank skeletons Literal blank canvases

[00:08:55] But also the reason why he is like the best Is that he was a guy who really Understood actors, studied their faces Understood what they needed to do in order to express Which features are most important for them as actors Sure Like his makeup works really well

[00:09:09] With performances That's true Everyone in this movie underdelivers except him He overdelivers He's doing so much for this movie That's giving him like nothing back He let them give great performances With the makeup but then no one bothered to give A good performance

[00:09:27] And then essentially within 10 years of this movie He retires I think Men in Black 3 is his last major movie And he was just like no one wants to do makeup anymore It's not fun when I do get a job They underbid it and they don't give me time

[00:09:39] I'm just done and he sold off his archives That's sad Wilson's career Was that 2012? 2014 Nothing in between Men in Black And even Men in Black he was like I was so excited they told me we were going to do a bunch of practical stuff

[00:09:55] He made all these suits and you barely see them in the movie Like they don't even cover them well It seemed like he was doing more and more like Crappy movies too Like the Wolfman That Wolfman movie Which I think he cared a lot about Eddie

[00:10:09] The makeup in all of these movies is amazing It's a really good thing they like Well we've got Rick Baker we don't have to do anything He won for the Wolfman though That was his last Oscar win And that was a good big one

[00:10:21] He wanted to do a Wolfman movie But like Benicio didn't want to play the Wolfman at all It's almost entirely stuntman When it's in the thing which bummed him out Like he just seemed so disenfranchised What a stupid movie That was so bad When we do Johnston

[00:10:37] Maybe someday 2075 No this movie just feels like You know this is a Breakthrough in makeup and then it ends up being sort of The end of like large scale special effects Makeup in this way Which is a bummer It's the best thing the movie is going for

[00:10:55] Why was this movie not nominated for a makeup Oscar That's what I was going to say What was nominated I got to find out The aftertaste of this movie was so toxic that everyone threw the whole thing out But that's crazy

[00:11:07] At the time everyone was saying like God That speaks to how much people hated this movie Was they didn't even nominate for makeup Because they just didn't want to think about it The Wolfman could get nominated and win Do you think it was just like

[00:11:19] They were like apes That's been done Like there's already been the apes movie But like what Here are the nominees, this is fucking embarrassing Okay so the winner was Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring It's the new hotness, it's got great makeup I can see that

[00:11:37] Another nominee was Mulan Rouge Which has incredible makeup and hair The whole thing The third nominee In the bedroom I want to try to guess this It's really embarrassing Because the makeup in this movie is like Embarrassing, bad and Is not prominent except in like one scene

[00:11:57] Interesting so it's like Oh is it a beautiful mind Which is terrible I think it's like You know I'm an old man Yes And Jennifer Connelly looks like she's aged Like seven years and has a grey wig But it just looks like a wax statue

[00:12:17] She can't move her face Nominating that for best makeup over This movie is kind of insane I feel like when people cite bad old age makeup That's the example of like You don't want to do a beautiful old age makeup That and Jay Edgar are the two

[00:12:31] Where I'm just like these are nightmares to look at That's kind of crazy I'm trying to find old Jennifer Connelly now I want to find her It looks so bad You're forgetting how bad it was She looks like an audio podcast but we're all looking at this picture

[00:12:49] Oh boy She looks bizarre It should have been nominated for that Yeah Nothing else Give it a makeup Yeah this was outstanding makeup Anyway Now that we've said one nice thing about it Right let's say this movie It's so boring

[00:13:11] It's just one of the least engaging movies we've ever covered on the show It's truly hard to pay attention It's hard to pay attention You have to like make yourself Keep your eyes on it The thing that's most similar to in that sense

[00:13:23] And it doesn't quite hit that depth But it's the last time I remember feeling this way Watching a movie for this podcast was Last year Bender Yeah It's like this genre exercise based on something else That is soulless

[00:13:37] And I just can't like someone's director who doesn't even seem like he's present Right totally Has no personality He was lost in the project maybe at one point Was intrigued by it but it's like obviously This has been done well before

[00:13:49] Other people have told this story incredibly well And you're just like I can't pay attention to that I mean I was saying to you guys I put it on when I was trying to go to sleep It was giving me such a headache that I turned it off

[00:13:59] Then I had insomnia And when my alarm went off this morning I had this sense of dread Like I had woken up the day of a test I was like fuck now I have to watch the remaining One hour and 15 minutes

[00:14:11] Cause when I went to sleep I was like This movie also gets worse Which is hard to do Cause it really does It starts well but it's building And I'm just like racking my brain How does this end again

[00:14:25] I was like are they just like in a desert An hour in the desert They get to the abandoned spaceship Like an hour and 5 minutes in the game What's the remaining hour of this movie I was sitting there going the same thing I was like they're here already

[00:14:39] What are they gonna do for the next 45 minutes Nothing Do you like Estella Warren's acting though Cause it'll be a little of that This is the area where I just This movie does make sense to me I don't want you to get into the later Tim Burton movies

[00:14:53] Where people can argue maybe his heart isn't in it Maybe he's just you know Sort of doing half work maybe it's whatever I just cannot imagine a universe In which Tim Burton watches Estella Warren's audition and goes I'm excited about this

[00:15:07] And I don't want to sound overly mean But he's always a guy where at the very least You're like he casts the actors he loves You know like you look at his films Like Alice in Wonderland It's like oh you can see that

[00:15:19] I'm excited about having Crispin Glover In his movie you know He was getting excited about Mia Wasakowska As like a perfect Burton girl And you just look at Estella Warren And Mark Wahlberg and you're just like I cannot imagine him being excited by any of the acting choices

[00:15:33] That's a good point I think that she is there Or was originally intended to be almost Like the almost like a parody Of Nova Where you're supposed to be I think ideally she's almost So blank that It makes sense for Mark Wahlberg's character

[00:15:51] To be into Helen the Bottom Carter Like that's the way that he sort of I think we're like To make a reason for him to be like Yeah maybe this ape lady Is for me I think Tim Burton had a total of two ideas For this movie

[00:16:07] One was I want the apes to be scary Which I don't think they execute well But you understand the idea of In the original they're kind of intellectual And they're kind of log a lot Even when there's battle scenes Primal and animalistic

[00:16:21] And you watch it and you go like I don't know if that was the right choice It also just feels like It gets a little samey The wire work in this film is atrocious God the wire work Fade just needs to go like

[00:16:35] Just push someone in the shoulder They're like lifting 18 feet in the air And he's not big enough to be that powerful No it's crazy Like you're only lifting a hot wheels car In between the two tables You know like there's it just has no

[00:16:49] I remember, so this was Maybe I would say one of Two movies in my lifetime I was most Excited for Peak, Gryff, Moving nerd Fanaticism I love the apes I loved Tim Burton and I was like There is no way this can go wrong

[00:17:07] And the only other movie I was ever this excited For was Toy Story 2 favorite movie of all time. And my parents, when I was like in the years between Toy Story 1 and 2 were like, you gotta set your expectations at a reasonable level. Sequels often diminish.

[00:17:23] Right, and it so greatly exceeded my expectations. I was like no one's ever gonna tell me how to think ever again. Well, you only had to wait like one year, right? A day, one and a half. I was at Sleepaway summer camp.

[00:17:34] Every day I would confiscate the newspapers from the counselors and cut out the ads for the plan of the apes and tape them to my bunk wall. Wow. Just imagine the counselor sitting around being like, he really likes Planet of the Apes.

[00:17:46] Griffin kid is very excited for the Tim Burton. Yeah, being Mark Wahlberg fans. Yeah, huge. He loved the big hit. He can't wait to see what Marky Markpins had. The big hit's pretty good. It's not bad. Compared to this. I know which I'd rather watch.

[00:18:01] So I had all the action figures before the movie came out. I had all the newspaper ads taped up to my blog. How many action figures were there? I'll tell you who I had. I had Limbo. I had Ari. I had Captain Leo Davidson. I had General Adam.

[00:18:15] Wait, who the fuck is Captain? Oh, that's Mark Wahlberg. That's Mark Wahlberg. Yeah. I confess I forgot his name. There's probably no worse thing you could say about this movie is that you have no idea the name of the main character and only human character.

[00:18:28] You're like, who is that? I literally think I had every action figure other than Estella Warren. That was the one bridge too far. I had Pericles. They made a Pericles figure. They made a Pericles. Was he to scale? Was he tiny? Yeah, he's tiny.

[00:18:41] He came with the spaceship. It was maybe better than the movie. I feel so bad for Pericles. He didn't ask to be in this movie. He has a good performance. Chris Christofferson. No, they didn't make him. But he's like... There's an important human character, I suppose.

[00:18:52] Huge on the poster. I guess Chris Christofferson could have played Captain Leo Davidson. But it would've been weird. He'd be good? It would've been weird if he was a captain, that character. I'm just trying to think like how he was like, Leo Davidson. No, no, no.

[00:19:04] I could've thought about it for one second. Yeah. He is huge on the poster and gets pretty high bill. Chris Christofferson? Yeah. They were really selling it. What poster? I'm gonna show you. You show me. I'm gonna show, I'm looking at here has all apes.

[00:19:18] Right, that's the one that's all them on the horses. Yeah, that's the one I remember. I mean maybe this is just the one from the newspaper. Don't remember a poster for this movie. No, I do because I too, this poster is the one I remember.

[00:19:29] And I too was like, wow, I was 15 years old and I was at that phase where I was like, I know who directors are. I'm super smart. And so I was like, Tim Burton, he's good and assumed this would be a big deal.

[00:19:42] It was also a big Empire Magazine movie, which I was a dedicated empire reader and they had been hyping it for six months or whatever. They had pictures of the costumes or whatever. Exactly. So I was like, no, it's gonna be good. I liked Michael Clark Duncan.

[00:19:58] I'd been in on him since Armageddon or whatever. It is one of those weird things where like, you look at the trailer now and you're like, this is obviously a bad trailer. We all should have known what was coming.

[00:20:13] And I remember the hype leading up to this movie was just like, yeah, Tim Burton's gonna do something weird again. Right. Even if the story doesn't work, it'll be visually engaging. It'll have great set pieces. There has to be some twist to it.

[00:20:23] I don't think anyone considered the fact that this movie could be terrible until it came out. I think there was also a lot of talk of like, what will the ending be? Because like, how do you talk that ending? Yeah, right. And especially in a post-sale,

[00:20:33] I definitely had a lot of the like, the ending was shot in total secrecy with armed guards. Right, yeah, you know. And this was the first movie where it was the big thing of like, it's not a remake, it's a re-imagining. Which then studios ran with for years.

[00:20:48] Right. Like we're trying to re-imagine it, but he said that in some interview. I don't like the word remake. I want to try to re-imagine the thing. And everyone was like, so he's not selling out. Like his imagination? What if he re-imagines it? But I de-imagined it, unfortunately.

[00:21:03] He de-imagined it. I just have this very distinct memory of, I wake up the morning that my father is gonna come, sign me out of camp to take me to see Planet of the Apes at the local New Milford Theater. Right. New Milford, Connecticut.

[00:21:19] And I went to breakfast and one of the counselors was there and he was like, Griffin, we need to talk. Oh God. And I was like what? And he was like a bunch of us last night after I put to bed Kong saw Planet of the Apes.

[00:21:34] And I was like, oh my God. And he was like, Griffin, it's really, really bad. Cause talk about a movie that people left the theater with the worst taste in their mouth. Cause they didn't like it anyway and then the ending is kind of a final like,

[00:21:49] now get the ultimate at you. And I just remember them talking to me like it was like they were like hung over. Like they were like rubbing their face, like a cup of coffee, like trying to make sense of what happened the night before.

[00:22:00] And I literally was like, who else was in the group with you who saw the movie? And I went one by one to the counselors cause I was like someone has to like this thing. And I finally got to one person and was like,

[00:22:10] I don't know it's like stupid, it's funny. I liked that they jump around the lot. And I was like, oh fuck. I'll take it. They were like, it's not good, but it's like ridiculous. Like I like it. There's like an ape smoking the hookah.

[00:22:22] And I was like, oh fuck. And my dad's- That was the rave. Yeah. My dad signed me out and it was one of those things where I sat there and tried to explain to myself why I was enjoying it. Like while I was watching it.

[00:22:33] You had phantom menacing drum. Full phantom menacing drum, full denial. By the time it came out on DVD, I bought it, put it in my DVD player, watched two minutes of it and was like, right, I hate this movie. Like I accepted it pretty soon after.

[00:22:46] Have not seen it since. Sure. I bought it on Blu-ray because it was like $3. Very cheap. For this? Okay, all right. That's fine. Not just like on a whim. Okay. The only plan of the movie I don't own. Yeah. I own it forever. Yeah, appropriate.

[00:23:03] I've heard the commentary is funny because there's a lot of Tim Burton being like, yeah, I don't know what this is. But I think there's like a commentary. There is a commentary. He has commentaries in almost all of his movies and they're really- They're kind of boring. Yeah.

[00:23:14] He's as checked out as you would think he would be watching it. I mean, there's also the incredible thing with this movie which is, this is where he meets on the bottom corner. Yep. Like who he's with. Because Lisa Marie is in this movie. Right.

[00:23:30] This is the last one she's in. That was a big deal. Like after this movie came out, Paparazzi saw him and Helen Bonham Carter kissing on a bench near the Eiffel Tower in Paris. And my dad woke me up and he was like,

[00:23:41] Griffin I have some bad news for you. Are you serious? Yeah, I swear to God, this was such a difficult time for me. You were investing his dating life? I was so invested in the Lisa Marie thing. And he was like, Griffin,

[00:23:51] I want you to know that sometimes our heroes do bad things. Wow. You have such an intense relationship with the 2001 Planet of the Eight. So intense. And it's literally a movie that everyone else on the planet of the humans doesn't remember even exists. Barely.

[00:24:07] Right, and I have just thought about it since then as one of my least favorite movies. Have not watched it since, and I've watched it now and I was like, I can't even imagine getting that worked up about this movie to hate it that much.

[00:24:18] Yeah, that's the thing. It's just a thing. It's not like a movie where, right, where you're just, your fear is... It's competent. It's right. But that's the best you could say. It's a three out of 10. Right, but at the time it was like, this was his 10th movie.

[00:24:29] I loved all nine leading up. Right, okay, so this was right. This is your loss of innocence. This is your moment. This is the first time where I was like, we can fail, you know? As a species. Yeah. I'm a little, I'm slightly older

[00:24:43] and for me that movie was like Godzilla where I was like, this movie is gonna be amazing. It's gonna be incredible. That is an early one for me too where I was like, no. I saw opening night in the theater and I was like, this is terrible.

[00:24:55] Like I didn't even convince myself. I was like, oh, this is fully awful. And that was the first time one of those movies I was old enough to recognize, oh, this thing that I was sold as being everything I need in my life is actually terrible.

[00:25:06] And it's like... I was telling me that the advertising agencies were lying. I'm afraid so. Size does not matter actually. But yeah, I remember that moment when I was like 11 or 12 when I started coming home from the movie theater and my mom was like, how was it?

[00:25:20] And I wasn't just always like, it was great. Yeah, right. You know. It was incredible. But this was also like such a big hype machine movie. Like this movie had like one of the biggest marketing campaigns of any studio film at that point in time. Sure.

[00:25:36] Like there were like giant New York City billboards that were the apes wearing Reeboks. Do you remember this? Definitely don't. Again, no one remembers anything about this movie but you. It's all seared into my memory because this truly is like a traumatic period in my life.

[00:25:52] You know, I was ready for September 11th because I had lived through the Burton Planet of the Eighth. Really glad I hadn't taken the swig of water I was about to take before you said that. What does that mean? Say it happens a couple months after

[00:26:06] and I said, look, already innocence is done. Oh, I see. Okay. All right. I know now that the world is a cruel and unfair place where horrible people commit terrible atrocities. No, no, keep digging. Won't stop digging till I find oil then. Planet of the Eighth.

[00:26:27] You know, like what if there was a planet? Go on. Rule the planet. Of? Rule the planet. We all know our planet. A lot of humans. A lot of humans are in it. Yeah, planet of the man. So far your story checks out.

[00:26:40] What if you got in a little, you know, whirligig up there and went through a big purple cloud? Medge being in a boardroom. Who's playing the scientist? Don't worry about that. And Crashland on a new planet. Yeah. Apes. The three kinds we all know. Grealis, chimpanzees and orangutans.

[00:27:01] They're mayors, carpenters. But do the apes fuck. Sure. Cool. Cool. You see the scene where Lee Spargh is. Yeah, who's the producer? Is like, can there be like a four play scene? Oh no, no. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so that's the only other thing.

[00:27:19] The idea I think that Tim Burton had very strongly was he wanted to make a love story between ape and a human. And the studio was like, absolutely. Right, no way. We ran the numbers on that one and it's not gonna happen.

[00:27:30] Right, so the RE character was supposed to be a princess. It was supposed to be explicit. That was the setup. And they were like, no. And he's like, what if it's subtext? And they were like, no. So I think the Estella Warren thing. What if it's subtext?

[00:27:43] What if it's sub-subtext? But you can tell watching it in every scene, he's like, he wishes he could do it. Like any time that come up on the Carter-Malburn talk. Because she's the only character that the movie is kind of alive for,

[00:27:55] because he's the only character who's dynamic in it right now. Has any in her life? Yeah. Because Wahlberg is just dead in this movie, just inert, has no interest in anything. In anything. He is the worst action hero. Maybe in any movie ever.

[00:28:11] And I don't, but I mean that both within the movie, his actions in the movie, he causes the planet of the age. Yes. True. He helps no one. Right. He goes to the planet accidentally because he's trying to rescue his monkey friend. Yeah. And then, Aquatents, monkey acquaintances.

[00:28:31] He doesn't even like the monkey that much. That's the thing. He goes to save the monkey who he's mean to. He's not even that nice. This is one of those movies where it's like, this is the beginning of studio filmmaking at this level lacking basic story competency. Right.

[00:28:48] Where it's like Godzilla sucks, but at least it's structured like a movie. Sure. You know they understand like, here is the very cliched underwritten arc that this character is supposed to have. Right. This movie starts off with Mark Wahlberg being too cool for school. Yeah. He's total asshole.

[00:29:05] He thinks everyone in the spaceship's a fucking loser. Hates his coworkers and all the apes. Right. His main coworker is the woman from Ad About You who loves the apes and he keeps on making fun of her for caring too much about the apes. Yes.

[00:29:16] Then they send the ape out in a fact finding mission and they lose him in a purple cloud. Yes. He goes- In five seconds by the way. Right, instantly. Disaster. He goes, how dare you? That's my ape. I need to go back and find him. Sure.

[00:29:28] They go, since when do you care about apes? You were just dunking on her for a life. He really just wants to go in the purple cloud. So then he gets in the ship and immediately sacrifices himself to try to save the ape

[00:29:37] then lands on the planet and immediately goes, I always hate apes. Well the other thing is like, wait, he goes his whole purpose for leaving the ship is to save the ape. He's trying to find Pericles. Then what does he do at the end of the movie?

[00:29:49] He takes his ship and leaves him behind. He leaves Pericles behind. Take care of this ape for me. Wait. There's room in that ship for a little monkey. To be fair, don't be fair. It's a whole planet of apes. He might like it on me.

[00:30:02] The only reason he went there was to get back Pericles. And then literally- This is what I'm saying. But they worship him as a god. But the Roland Emmerich version of this movie, the Roland Emmerich version of this movie would at least in the first 10 minutes

[00:30:18] set up that he was the Jane Goodall of astronauts. And he loved Pericles and they had this incredible bond. And the whole movie is, I can't lose him. I gotta find him. Right, right. They don't even get that right. No, they don't even get that right.

[00:30:30] And this movie feels like Mark Wahlberg's performance in this movie feels like he wants to beat up this movie for being a nerd. Yes. He has such utter contempt for the movie. It's the happening syndrome times a thousand. Times a billion.

[00:30:44] Because the happening you can tell he wants to beat up his own character. But at least the things around him are real people things. Yeah, he's like, I don't like this dorky shillet like helmets and fucking laser guns and bullshit.

[00:30:57] But I mean also the only choice he makes as an actor is I'm not gonna take my shirt off, okay? Cause like the other guy did it and I do that all the time so I won't do it. The thing is to me the character is clearly written

[00:31:09] sort of in the Heston character mold. Cause the Charlton Heston character in the original movie is also a dick. Yes. But the thing is the differences in that movie, he gets to explain why he hates humanity and why he's on this thing

[00:31:20] and what he has like a perspective. Like there's a reason. We can't sort of his folly like his rage, his arrogance. Right, right. Exactly. And in this movie there's no reason for it. He's just above everything. And hates everyone. He just hates everyone.

[00:31:34] Yeah, and he's just a dick. And that's what's interesting is Heston did have that sort of like fiery anger. Of course. Yeah, what's it called? Gravitas I believe movie star qualities. But like we should do a little Marky Mark career context because his thing is so fucking weird.

[00:31:52] You go like okay he's like a rapper and an underwear model. Right, he's a shirtless underwear model with three nipples. His brother is in the new kids on the block. So he's for a while he's the less famous brother. He's like Aaron Carter. Sure, exactly. Right.

[00:32:06] And then he is in, he's in like Renaissance man and basketball. Penny Marshall discovers him. He on his episode of inside the actor studio says I went to the Penny Marshall School of Acting. She hired me. What a phrase. That rubber bench.

[00:32:20] Of course our next miniseries subject, Penny Marshall. He said she hired me and immediately said you can act. I'm gonna break you and teach you how to act. And he claims that Penny Marshall. Imagine Penny Marshall saying that to you. You can act. You can act.

[00:32:34] You got no charisma. You seem like you're asleep on screen. RIP Penny Marshall. So he's like she broke me. She taught me everything I knew. Sure. And then immediately he has this chip on his shoulder and he's like fighting for parts like things like basketball diaries.

[00:32:51] As well diaries. I wanna prove like I'm a real actor. Everyone thinks I'm a pretty boy. I'm like a novelty rapper. I'm missing that. And he starts like making a mark for himself as this sort of angry young man. Make a marky mark for himself.

[00:33:01] Oh yeah man, start making a marky mark. Here are the things that he's in. He's in 96, he's in fear. Which I feel like is his first very compelling performance. Yeah. And all these he says like I had to fight so hard. They thought I was a joke.

[00:33:11] They didn't want to hire me. But he's good in that and that is that's probably the first time he makes an impression on a wider audience. And that's also like a character performance for the first time. Right. I think he's in something called Traveler I've never heard of.

[00:33:21] Never even heard of it. What is that? Bill Paxson, whatever. He's in Boogie Nights. Obviously quite a famous film. Right. So this is the huge thing because like you know what you might call it, PTA was like, well I'm boy genius.

[00:33:37] I wrote the best script of all time. I'm going to hire Leonardo DiCaprio and Warren Beatty. Right. And both of them were like no fucking way. Right. Warren Beatty thought he was being hired to play Dirk Dickler. Right. Right? Isn't that the story? Correct.

[00:33:50] He couldn't imagine that he wouldn't be playing the young lead who everyone wants to fuck. Yeah. But he like moves down the chain of things and Bert Reynolds is pretty like dinged at that point. Marky Mark hasn't really got credibility. Sure.

[00:34:03] And it's viewed as this amazing like thing like oh my god who knew Marky Mark had this in him. Correct. And especially as like a lead man of real movie star for Marky. I think he's so good at Boogie Nights. He's amazing.

[00:34:11] I love him in that movie, man. He's incredible. But Marky Mark is one of those. I am going to be a star. He's wonderful in it. That's not the first line that comes to mind for me but I'd rather not go into it here. Fair enough.

[00:34:22] But I think he gets a couple years after that where everyone's like okay cool. So now he's fully formed. Where's Mark? Yeah come on. Where's his first Oscar nom? Put him in anything he's going to kill. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's I think PTA latched onto something

[00:34:33] sooner than everyone else. That Marky Mark himself didn't figure out for a while. Which is. And still only sporadically figures out even now. He had a couple years where he was really locked into it and then started making bad choices again.

[00:34:44] But the key is his movie star quality is like the run to the litter anger trying to prove himself. Like he has the chip on his shoulder and he has to prove to everyone else. He is not good when he plays a high status person.

[00:34:55] He is better at playing a low status person. He's better at playing low status. He's so hard. We talked about this in the Ridley Sky. What do you call it? All the money in the world. Oh, yes. Where he's like cool and collect. Hey listen to me.

[00:35:05] I run the show and I'm like Marky. You don't run the show. You are not a rich person. Like I want you to be right. The cop who's like get one of these rich guys. No that's who I want you to be. His movie star quality is irritability.

[00:35:18] Like he's really good at being annoyed at things. Right. And having that sort of like righteous anger about stuff. He's also good like when he could like if Planet of the Apes this planet was a comedy and he was playing this character

[00:35:30] but funny because this is like not that far moved from like the other guys to me. Like this kind of guy. But it's just that here he's playing it like actually like he's serious. He's just angry. That's the thing.

[00:35:40] He learns how to lean into the bravado of those characters and make itself aware. I do. David O'Russell gets that in him. Right. I mean the director starts. To keep going through his. You know I do think he's good in The Big Hit which is a fun movie.

[00:35:52] Yeah, he's okay in that. Yeah. Obviously then he's in 1993 Kings. David O'Russell. He's terrific in that. It's a great movie. Horrible shooting experience according to everyone but. Except for Marky Mark. He loves David O'Russell. Exactly. Has the best take away from it.

[00:36:08] He's in the Yards, the James Gray movie which he's excellent. Also great. Another great director knowing how to use. He's in The Perfect Storm which I think is more just him sort of going like, Hey Boston look at I don't know if you know this.

[00:36:18] But hello that fucking wave. He's not bad at it but it's not particularly knowable. And then he is in this which he just feels. He has this run now where it's like this rock star truth about Charlie Italian job. Yeah. He's like vanishing into these lead roles.

[00:36:33] They have to be all charisma. Just put generic leading man roles. Rock star. Right. What if they were rock star? They sound generic too. Like even Italian job which is like pretty fun. Exceeded all expectations did very well. He is not what you like about it.

[00:36:46] I feel like no one ever thinks about him being in that move. You like like you know Moe's Def and. Yeah the Ensembles good. Seth Queen and. Cars. Cars. Super cars in that movie. And it's like and then in 2004 when he has I Heart Huckabees. Which is phenomenal.

[00:37:02] You're like oh yeah this guy's an actor. Right. Like you know like if as long as you're he's so good that's his best performance ever. I think so too. I would give him the Oscar for that. And obviously like a couple years after that

[00:37:12] he had the departed and you know he sort of gets his Oscar nomination. Right and then there's a run of years where he's not making great movies but he's making consistently successful movies post fighter where he becomes like one of the most consistently bankable actors.

[00:37:26] Where he's getting into his like Peter Berg cycle where Ted is huge. Yep. Where lone survivor is huge. You know daddy's home like it's weird how big daddy's home is. Sure. Huge. But he's. I like Deepwater Horizon that's my Walberg movie.

[00:37:42] I think he's good not a bad movie. I like a movie where Walberg's like hey listen to me why would anyone do this thing's gonna blow you know like that's what I want out of Walberg. My favorite. Where's in Patriots Day. Oh god.

[00:37:52] But the problem is I didn't know until after I saw the movie the Patriots Day he's playing like a character that didn't exist. He's playing six characters that have been strung together makes no sense that he's on showing up the right way.

[00:38:03] Hey let's ask this patrolman what he thinks. He says like the mayor. And then Matt has already pulled up his next picture moment. Like just the picture of I pulled up the gambler and just like just the photo of the poster. He's like oh this movie is awful.

[00:38:16] He's flying too close to the sun again. Like he does that he does all the money in the world. Like once again he's trying to play like very high status. Calm intellectuals. Your high status low status thing. Like this is no good. No. High status.

[00:38:28] And then his next thing is that he's remaking Spenser to Spencer for hire with Peter Berg. It's like a detective novel that was turned into like a big show in the 80s. Spencer for hire you never heard of? No. Wow.

[00:38:46] With Avery Brooks was the famously hawk you know the sidekick and Spencer was played by Robert Uric. Yeah. Yeah that Wonderland that's his big movie this year. Okay. Guess who directed it? Peter Berg. Peter Berg. Yeah he loves working at Peter Berg. He does.

[00:39:02] He says it's like you know the only friend he's made in his adult life. Oh yeah. Like all his other friends are. He's the star of Peter Berg's last five movies I think. Yeah.

[00:39:10] But he was like you really make a friend that good when you're in your 40s. Yeah. You know like I think you know other than Turtle and E and Vinny and all his friends. We grew up with.

[00:39:21] That's the other weird Mark Wahlberg thing is he goes to HBO and is like. He turned his life into a terrible TV show that dominated it all pop culture. That should be a TV show and everyone's like. Worst idea.

[00:39:32] Well like HBO says yes everyone's like I can't believe HBO gave him the money to do that and then everyone hate watches it and becomes a hit. And also he had his another TV show about his family making burgers. Yeah. And he's a producer on Boardwalk right?

[00:39:46] Boardwalk and bar. He is. What a weird career. Right. He saves and ballers. David O'Russell's career. Wait he's involved with ballers? Of course. Because I think ballers was like him being like hey remember on to rush and they're like yeah. Other people have friends. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:59] A little bit like sports not to rush. And they were like you got to produce your credit. Yeah. Like. You gotta do a TV show do a TV show about how you make money and fuck people. Rock you got to do it.

[00:40:09] I'm a movie star I do a TV show. Truly one of the most devastating SNL impersonations of all time. Like I really think so. And stunning because until the moment he uttered the first syllable you went well there's no way to do a Mark Wahlberg impression right?

[00:40:25] Or like why would Mark Wahlberg impression be that interesting? There's nothing distinctive enough about him he doesn't have a clear movie star. I argue actually that impression is what sets him off to have such a good run of like five or six years. Sure.

[00:40:38] Then he realizes what his movie star persona is because it's defined so thoroughly and he starts being self aware about it. Right. Yeah. He's not self aware here. No. Not at all. Very far from self aware. So he says the Devon the Prosperous.

[00:40:54] He's like when Pluto is like furthest from the sun. He's taken a purple cloud as far away from from self aware as he can possibly. His only choice he makes is is this a cool movie star walk? He's got a real. Yeah. He does have a son term.

[00:41:06] To him. Yeah. Yes. He said he didn't want to be shirtless because he had done too many shirtless ads. Right. He also has a third nipple that I think he corrects shortly after this. Sure.

[00:41:14] But if you look in the original underwear ads he's got a little little third guy. I never knew that. Yeah. Yeah. He's one of the most famous third nipple havers in American history. He's a witch. Of course we should burn him.

[00:41:29] No but this movie has a crazy development process because in the early 90s Fox was like you know they were starting to become franchise driven in Hollywood. Yes. We have this huge it was sort of the original massive franchise. Sure.

[00:41:43] Plan BX was like the first franchise that got really merchandise and turned into TV shows and five films and all of this. It's overdue for a modern reboot. Imagine what the makeup would be like today. And I think the original original was Ridley Scott and Aaron Schwarzenegger.

[00:41:59] And no Adam Rifkin. Right. Adam fucking Rifkin. Director of Never on Tuesday. And Detroit Rock City. Yep. Yep. Yep. That's right. He pitches them on a Planet of the Apes movie after Never on a Tuesday comes out or whatever. Right.

[00:42:14] They said we like your movie what would you want to do next? And he says you have the Apes franchise I can't believe you're sitting on it. I'm a huge fan here's what I would do.

[00:42:20] And it was going to be called Return to the Planet of the Apes. And it's like a continuation of the original chronology. And they wanted to hire like Tom Cruise or Charlie Sheen but I feel like any movie from that era from the late 80s.

[00:42:32] It was either Cruise or Sheen. Right. You guys. And then Peter Jackson pitched his take where it was like a renaissance. It was the Apes through the renaissance. Yes. Where. Because that's the other thing with the original trilogy is it's this original trilogy.

[00:42:46] The original series is this oros boros that covers different points in the. A real boros I think. Right. Isn't that where your tree is? I miss pronounce every word David. Are we going to start correcting now? I'm just correcting you. Carry on carry on.

[00:43:00] Yes they keep going back and forward right. Right. Covering different parts in the evolution of society. Partly because they blew up the planet halfway through the series so they had to go back. Yeah. The coolest thing any franchise has ever done which is end existence on movie two.

[00:43:14] Right. Yes. He wanted to make his renaissance the age of thinking. He got Roddy McDowell on board. Apparently he excitedly told an executive this and they were like who's Rodney McDowell. And he was like you may not be the people I want to work with on it.

[00:43:29] Yeah that's not a good sign. So he went back to heavenly creatures. Right. Then Ramey and Stone are circled for like an early 90s. Jesus Oliver Stone said it has the discovery of chronologically frozen Vedic apes who hold

[00:43:47] the secret numeric codes to the Bible that foretold the end of civilizations. Sure. The apes like wrote the Bible. Yeah absolutely. Apparently that script supposed to be great. They paid all the stone like a million. Million bucks I think.

[00:44:01] Right to be a producer and co-writer I think hoping he would eventually direct it. Yeah. And they get Arnold on board. And Schwarzenegger gets on board. Pending his approval of directors. So now the film stuck in this thing where they know they have Schwarzenegger

[00:44:13] and they know they want to do a new plan of the apes and they're trying to find the right director and the right script for that combination. Right. Which kind of sounds like a home run in like 1993. For sure. Cameron considers it. Philip Noyce.

[00:44:28] Goes pretty far on it. Ridley Scott considered it at one point. He decides to go make the saint. Right. Philip Noyce. Ridley Scott yeah. But it was one of those things where like Cameron was thinking about doing it before

[00:44:39] Titanic then when he thought Titanic was going to bomb he was getting into it then when Titanic did so well. A Fox executive called Dylan Sellers apparently felt the script could be more comedic and he pitched something where like the

[00:44:52] apes are playing baseball but they don't have a picture. Right. It was one of those things where he was like the apes playing human clothes. Why aren't they doing funny stuff? If you want to remake just Ed.

[00:45:03] I was just about to say is this how we got we wound up with Ed. That man obviously played the greatest. I literally was just about to say tell me that this man Greenlit Ed. The businessman but instead of smoking cigars or smoking bananas come on

[00:45:14] I can write this shit myself then Sellers with the main development executive on it killed another man in a drunk driving accident. And he like went to jail. Yes. He killed both the other driver and another Fox executive who is in his passenger seat went to jail.

[00:45:29] Production sort of got halted everything that he had been pushing forward. So I think now they're like 99 and it's been like 10 years of trying to make a plan of the apes movie. Donald Schwarzenegger seems like that that's slipping away.

[00:45:42] One of my favorite things is they brought on Chris Columbus and did a test of apes skiing. No one knows why. That was the crazy thing is like every time they brought in a new director and these were

[00:45:52] like big, big the biggest directors of the 90s in different genres. There would always be a Fox executive who was like, can you have them do a ballet? Like they like come up with all these ideas about like it's about the dawn of like the computer.

[00:46:08] You know, like everyone's coming in with these like big theological ideas and they'd be like cool, cool, cool. What if the ape hosted a talk show? And it feels like every version of the movie is getting halted at that gap between like

[00:46:19] a heady director wanting to say something about human like society and a Fox executive wanting to have an ape do something an ape shouldn't do. Well, based on the finished product here, it's pretty clear who eventually won out. Right. It was the executives. 100%. Yes.

[00:46:34] Because there's so much shit in this movie that just feels like Tim Burton like threw his hands up. It's just generic. It's like someone eventually said, let's make the matrix with apes. Yes. It is crazy though. It's like Columbus drops out to make jingle all the way.

[00:46:48] Like even being involved with this was a bad idea. It would curse your later project. This is a true monkey posses. Schwarzenegger goes to make eraser. Michael Bay turns down the job. The Hughes brothers want to make it, but they're busy making from hell.

[00:47:04] Peter Jackson is getting famous and is still not interested. William Broil's Jr writes the script that we now know, which then gets, you know, polished by Conor and Rosenthal who have the other credit. And how they wrote Burton in, I really have no fucking idea.

[00:47:25] Like I don't know why Burton gets to be like the 14th director involved. We had, I want to see if I can find the username so I can credit him properly, but someone, one of our Blinkies on the reddit wrote a really, really good piece

[00:47:40] in the Batman Returns thread about how like, and it made me think about this in a different way about like we all like sit around and go like, what happened to Tim Burton? Like why where's the moment? Why did it all sort of turn off?

[00:47:53] Why do these films start to feel less and less like sort of adept or, or, you know, passionate personal, any of that. Right. And he made this argument that like, Edward, Edward Scissorhands and Batman Returns are like this perfect triptych

[00:48:09] of everything that guy sort of has to say in his heart about like how he feels, how he views society, how we treat others. And that after that, he's just sort of like, what more do I have to say?

[00:48:22] So people offer me things and he's like, yeah, I don't know. I guess monkeys, that sounds cool. Right. Like there's like the Rolling Stones doing the endless tours. They've done all their material and now it's just like, I'm going to play the hits. Right.

[00:48:32] But for him, it just becomes like, oh, there's an element I haven't done before. Monkeys are cool. I like that book growing up. The makeup, sure. Right. Whatever this thing is. Makeup's going to be fun. Right. Right.

[00:48:40] But then when he signs on, I think everyone just goes like, well, it's Tim Burton. He must know what he's doing. He must have a take on this. So they were saying like no actor they could get to sign on would, once they read the script,

[00:48:52] no actor would want to do this movie. And Mark Wahlberg pointedly didn't read the script, went to a meeting with Tim Burton and after five minutes said, look, I just want to work with you all do whatever you want to do. Sure.

[00:49:02] Which is not unfair for him to do at the time. Right. No. And certainly like Mark Wahlberg finds success when he works with strong directors. You can see him going like, I trust you. You know how to use people. You'll know how to use me. Right.

[00:49:15] But it's clear that I think everyone threw to Burton like there must be some sort of guiding principle. There must be some take he's got on this. Right. And also the execs came in with a bunch of notes and he's just like,

[00:49:26] I just got totally lost in the thing. We started production like nine months before it was going to come out. The whole thing was rushed. I didn't have time to figure it out. Right. There was something where it had to come out whenever it came right.

[00:49:38] This is one of the first like we've marked out these release dates. Yeah. We can't give it up. It was being rewritten while they were like building the sets. You know, it's everything you don't want to do. And like the sets in this movie make no sense.

[00:49:51] Like until they get to the desert. Excuse me. I think this world is very plausible. What are you talking about? No. Until they get to the desert, you're just like, I don't understand the layout of the city. I don't understand if we're indoors or outdoors.

[00:50:02] How many of them are there? Right. Are they? They totally invert the original movie where the original movie starts in the middle of nowhere and you get a sense. You feel like you're on a weird planet. Right.

[00:50:13] And then this one starts in like a really ridiculous looking set with like lots of green leaves and you're just like, I'm not on a planet of the apes. I'm on a set of apes. I'm on a back lot of the Fox studio.

[00:50:24] Like it has no until like the second half of the movie where they go outside. The sound stage of the apes. Right. Yeah. It looks totally fake. But you say like until they go outside, like all the stuff that's shot on sound stages,

[00:50:34] they build the sets in a way and light them so that they look like interiors. Yeah. So you're just like, is this ostensibly the town square? Am I seeing the outside of buildings or is this like the inside of an anthill? Right.

[00:50:49] Like are they all living like inside some giant super, super unclear. But yeah, the original plan of the apes, I don't think you see an ape until like 48 minutes in. Like you start on the spaceship. He crashed lands. He wakes up. He's out of sorts.

[00:51:03] There's a lot of trauma has to just like in the desert trying to figure out where he is. Where to go. That score is so good. And that movie, yeah. And it's sort of like this weird like cast away like, you know,

[00:51:14] like Robinson Caruso on Mars, like Survivor Movie until the apes come in. And this it's like it gets to the apes shit really fast. Sure. You have no understanding of how their society works. And never receive any. Right. And Tim Burton at this point is like, you know,

[00:51:29] if there's one thing you could say his films are really about, it's like him trying to make sense of like human behavior, right? This anthropological thing of like he doesn't understand people who are like confident and feel comfortable acting normal.

[00:51:43] Living in their like controlled acceptable ways, you know, normal jobs and polite conversation and all of that. And so you go like, I guess maybe like that's what's attracting him here is making a movie that's like really looking at society,

[00:51:57] anthropological way, but then there's no real take to like. Well, they're in the city for about 20, 25 minutes. And you just get this one shitty dinner party. Yeah. The one scene that did kind of feel like a Tim Burton movie.

[00:52:09] But he's also so at odds with the tone of everything else in this movie. But then it just becomes like a chase movie where they're just they're just wandering around and people are chasing them. Right. So all the stuff that people love about Planet of the Apes,

[00:52:21] which is like the satire, the, you know, the commentary on society, there's almost none of it in this movie. None of it. This movie has no commentary, which is the thing above all else you would expect Tim Burton to have.

[00:52:32] Right. So like what I'm saying, like the thing that you're looking for in this movie and I'm going, yeah, that does sound like a Tim Burton movie. Right. It's not in the movie. Right. Because like even like Dark Shadows, it's like, well,

[00:52:40] he still is coming from that perspective of like, I don't understand behavior. People are weird. Not one goth eight. Not one goth eight. You have those teens who look like they're smoking an eight-bong. Yeah. That's true. And they're wearing leather jackets and smoking dates. Yeah. Yeah. That's true.

[00:52:55] On a street corner. There's Rick Baker plays that hookah ape, you know, when they roll the cart and he's taken a big ball. That's the other thing is like every background ape in this movie

[00:53:05] is giving a performance that feels like it would fit in like a theme park stunt show. Like it's just like jockeying for attention. You're like a dark ride. Right. Right. And they're just going so huge, like trying to be the one who stands out in the shot.

[00:53:17] There's no sort of cohesion to like what the language is of the apes because they're stuck in this weird nether zone of like, so are we making them like really feral? Right. Are they like all fours crawling around and they just have like verbal intelligence?

[00:53:34] And like Roman armor. Right. Because in the originals, they're like totally bipedal, normal, like anthropomorphic people with ape faces. You really believed apes could have meetings. That's the black, the black foot shirt. Yeah. Yes. It's such a, it's a, yeah. Well, it's a quieter talkier movie.

[00:53:50] But of course it was the 60s. Right. Now we're in the 2000s, baby. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry, Ben. So it's like he wants to make this like vicious and violent thing, but it's not an action movie. Not a successful one. No.

[00:54:05] I mean, as we were talking about more gently in the Batman Returns episode, you know, Burton's skill is not with set, you know, action itself. No. Right. No. It's not particularly thrilling action director. The action in this movie is that people jump up and down. That's the thing.

[00:54:23] It's like, I mean, I'm trying to think is there any others? It's a lot of jumping. A lot of jumping. And it's so much jumping. Why are you working? And people, like you said before, like people like glance, giving someone a glancing blow

[00:54:32] and they fly 40 feet into the air. Right. And I don't think Tim Roth climbs a horse normally one time in the movie. Like he only gets on a horse, which he does like 12 times in the movie. He does a lot.

[00:54:43] With like a wire work jump where he goes like, yes. Like literally that's how he does it every time. He is the worst. I mean not Tim Roth. I mean I like Tim Roth. Fade is a character. Fade is bad. Yeah. Like worst dinner party guess. Terrible.

[00:54:56] You know, like the senator has him over. He's rude. He's mean. And he's like, I love you, Ari. And he's a creep. He's a soul in it. But that's what I'm saying. Like his characterization is so different. Every actor is in their own movie in this thing.

[00:55:12] That's true. Yes. Where it's just like, you know. Right. Because it's like, are the apes sort of have, do they have like a sort of samurai culture? Right. There's some sort of Asian influence to some of the design and stuff.

[00:55:21] And then it's like, no, are they like Rome? Is this like ancient Rome? And they're just sort of like, I think the production. Sometimes it feels like they're like Pacific Islanders. Colomai, right? Like they're in this sort of like Caribbean sort of like. Right.

[00:55:35] It doesn't make any sense. I mean the original movie, the one other big difference we haven't really talked about is that in this movie that the humans can talk. Right. Which is another thing that I think could be interesting. Sure.

[00:55:46] And I could, it could almost make the sort of the racial metaphors more like interesting and overt. Because then it's like, in the first movie the humans are like, they're like animals in the first movie. So it's like. And they're all mute. And it's like.

[00:55:57] They're all, they're totally like devolved. They're devolved. And so like treating them like pets, you can sort of wrap your mind around that. But in this movie they're like literally saying like, oh, they don't have the apes or like, they don't have souls, the humans.

[00:56:09] But you're like, well, they're talking in there. Like you have to be like fully racist. To think like that. Which I think again, could be interesting. And the movie is not making any point. It has no insight. No way. Again, it's totally. It's a total racism. Right.

[00:56:20] That's what's in it. Right. Inhuman like you're just like, yeah, they suck. Or you're Ari and you're like, the humans should live. Right. Hibbert isn't equipped to say anything about that. Sure. Right. He might be the bad director for what you're talking about.

[00:56:34] Perhaps he's the wrong director for that Plenad of the apes movie. Yeah, exactly. But also he is like the right director to make a movie about like being an outsider. Sure. Like being cast out from society. Like he's not going to viewing that through a racial.

[00:56:46] No, that's the worst fucking avatar for a Tim Burton movie ever. Yeah. So then you go like, I think he's kind of relating more to the Honobotom Carter character. Sure. Well, he was definitely really. Antiparicles. Honobotom Carter. Let me tell you. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Antiparicles. Yeah.

[00:57:02] The main character. Did anyone else relate to Honobotom? Did anyone feel like they were fucking with Paricles when they gave him a full space suit but no gloves? Yeah. Like what's the point of that? And there's also the point where like Mark Wahlberg lifts his helmet on

[00:57:14] and you're like, aren't those things supposed to be like screwed down? Yeah. Like it's supposed to be an airlock. Like they, like he takes it off like it's a propeller cap. That's like a, it's like a Halloween costume. It's not doing anything for him.

[00:57:22] It's not doing anything for him. Like who decided, you know what I mean? It makes him feel like a big boy pilot. Let's just, just for us, just for us. Let's put it in the little costume. And I also love that he like pilots the ship.

[00:57:33] Like they, it's, I get putting like an animal in a ship if you don't want to put a human inside it and you need a, I don't know. No, but it's like a ship with like. He's like pulling levers.

[00:57:42] Who let the ape, who thought that was a good idea? Like we trained him. It's okay guys. He's been training to go into the purple cloud. We trained him. That's fucking. Just remote control it. I don't understand. Just remote control it. They put him into the purple cloud.

[00:57:59] He vanishes within one second. Wahlberg's reaction to this is not like that purple cloud seems dangerous. Oh well. Right. Like he just sort of has a coxie going like, here we go. And then. Into the purple cloud.

[00:58:12] What happens immediately gets sucked into a time warp and he's like, Hey, what's happening? Like I don't know. Maybe the experiment you just witnessed could have given you some clues. All the people who were like, do not leave the ship or correct. You've made a tactical error.

[00:58:26] Oh God. Right. He doesn't want to be shirtless. So his like his spacesuit catches on fire and then he just wears like. It's artfully distressed. That's tattered inner lining. Yeah. Which looks like a fucking urban outfit or drag land.

[00:58:41] It has a very like urban outfitters quality to it. It really does. As you were saying, Matt, the original there is this interesting yin yang thing where like he's looking at them as now it's sort of being like, I can't believe apes can talk.

[00:58:56] And they're looking at him the same way. Exactly. Like they've never seen a human speaking before. Right. So there's not like, I wouldn't say uneasy alliance, but even like Dr. Zeyas who's like more of an antagonist character isn't like trying to hunt him down and kill him.

[00:59:10] Like society is trying to make sense of this guy. Right. And this guy's just trying to find answers. And this is like just this weird like slave master situation that's also like verging on a civil war where they just keep on like, but then there's also the thing.

[00:59:27] I mean you have like the sort of like the house humans. Right. Which is just like. You mentioned that. Right. Right. It's a it's a lot to be playing around. A lot to be playing around.

[00:59:37] And to play around with it so briefly and sort of so briefly like half heartedly and like then they just hand wave it away and never bring it up ever again. Never bring it up. That point where Eric Cavarie, I believe. Right.

[00:59:47] Where Mark Wahlberg is like, wow, all these people, where did they come from? And it's like they've heard about you and it's like, wait, they just left the house. I thought they were all in cages.

[00:59:57] Like how were they all able to just like freely come and meet Mark Wahlberg? He's also very non-plused about the whole talking apes thing. Like he's not that face. He's not that face. He's like. At all.

[01:00:08] It's like, I mean, I know a monkey that could pilot a spaceship. So I guess this is fine. Not a big deal. Right. It just feels like he doesn't want to. It's almost like he's seen Planet of the Eight. Yes.

[01:00:17] And he's like, this is like different but kind of the same. I think I'm in that movie. But it has the contempt of like him being like, yeah, no, I know. It's one of those fucking nerdy situations. Right. What is some fucking time bubble with some shit?

[01:00:29] I don't want to ask too many fucking questions. Where's my ship? Fuel cells okay? Okay, let's get out of here. I'm trying to know what I said before like I was watching this and I was trying to think of Nate find another like hero in an action movie

[01:00:42] who that's not like big trouble little China where that's part of the joke. Right. Like who's less effective and causes more problems. Like he literally causes the planet of the apes. Right. We find out later he is the reason it exists. Yeah.

[01:00:54] And then it's a total time like causal thing. Yes. Which I really have a problem with that. But it's like he doesn't help anyone. And like they literally at the end of the movie they say, please stay.

[01:01:04] You could do so much good if you stay and he's like, I am getting out of here. Which way is space? And you're watching my friend Pericles. I'm leaving him behind. But that's the thing. Pericles arriving. Yes. Which he does by himself. Yes.

[01:01:17] Through his competent piloting of the spaceship. So it's no big deal. He lands the spaceship perfectly. That's why one. Walberg crashes into a lake. That's the one joke in the movie that works. Is that Walberg always crashes the ship and he can actually land the thing. Right.

[01:01:31] Which is pretty funny. It is good. Okay. So the weird time loop with this movie is right. There's this one purple cloud that like distort space and time. This purple cloud is no good by the way.

[01:01:40] But then it seems like it's a specific like two way like it's a link between just these two planets. Right. Right. But but time distorts when you go through it. So Mark Walberg Pericles goes through it first. Yeah. Then Mark Walberg goes through it. He lands. Yeah.

[01:01:56] Then a day later Pericles lands. Something like that. Something like that. Yeah. A day later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Of course but they're landing in the year 2050. Right. But my point is they both land within 48 hours of each other. Within a future year. Yes.

[01:02:13] But they find that the the mothership. The mothership has also gone through the cloud and landed hundreds of years. Thousands. They say thousands. So the time don't even think about the year but yes they say thousands. Thousands of years.

[01:02:26] What are the odds that Pericles and Mark Walberg lands so closely within each other? And that he lands like in the middle of the big climactic battle. But you see none of this cloud is purple so it's prediction you know it's hard to figure out what

[01:02:37] it's doing you know. But then he goes back through the cloud spoilers and somehow they got his own spaceship. Look the ending will get to the end. That's going to require for the thought.

[01:02:50] But I just want to point out as I was like Pericles lands he lands all by himself. Perfect. He's like a big boy. Yeah. When he lands. The Olympic judges all give him fives. Perfect landing.

[01:03:04] When he lands literally the site of him heals all tensions between man and ape on the planet of the end. Because they think he's their original god. But he's not. The actual god was one of the other eight in the brain.

[01:03:16] But he's one of them so right you know so just his arrival solves all the problems. Yeah. Right solves like every problem. Right. It's like a brain part full on battle scene and it all just instantly stopped. Right. Right.

[01:03:29] And at the Colima right is that what's called the Colima. Right. Exactly. If Mark Wahlberg had just crashed his ship and like a tree had gone through his head and he was just dead and not in the movie and then one day later Pericles had landed.

[01:03:41] Would have made no difference. The all would have been solved. Less people would have died. There wouldn't have been a stupid war in the desert. Yeah. Right. Chris Christopherson is totally alive. Exactly. So there's no answer to this question. Sure.

[01:03:52] I know there's no good answer to this question. Right. But this is what I ask when Erica Varia is like they all came here to see you. Yeah. And you're going like wait were they all slaves did they all individually escape or were

[01:04:05] they all free because it feels like a cell of war and the boy and Chris Christopherson are representing like like human survivors like they're like they'll leave no trace where like we're living off the grid. Are there tribes of humans who are just independently like traveling around

[01:04:21] the forest looking for freedom or are all humans enslaved or about to be enslaved. You know these are good questions. They're very good. I would love to see the movie has answered these questions. Because in the original it's clear that there are no independent humans and the originals

[01:04:38] are just animals. And you get in this the GMOD he's like going around with his big net like trying to catch him constantly. His big net is like H&M blue blazer. Right. I like that like GMOD makes a strong choice which is like this guy sucks.

[01:04:53] And he said that he and Burton read the script and there was supposed to be a third act. He learned something and they were like that sucks. He should just still be a piece of why would he be good. He should sell kids aspirin. Yeah.

[01:05:04] Which is the only good joke in the movie. That's a nice note. He's unrepentant which is fun. I mean yeah he is he really is he's the one person who really looks looks like he's having fun

[01:05:13] like I mean it's a great performance in stark contrast to like Mark Wahlberg who looks so miserable. He is like just chewing up the scenery having a grand old time. And he is working that makeup so well.

[01:05:23] Like you can tell he's got the sort of discipline to like spend every day looking in the mirror and testing out how to get his expressions through the teeth he's got the incredible bad teeth. Yeah terrific. His voice is perfect coming out of an ape.

[01:05:37] He was the only person from the cast who said he wanted to do a sequel. But when he asked about it. You can tell him. He wanted like the Fox executive thing. He's like yeah of course we should make a sequel.

[01:05:45] I don't know I want to see like apes in like an office meeting or something. Let me find the exact quote. Like apes having like a business lunch. Yeah Kalima. I can't not think of Temple of Doom every time they say it in this movie.

[01:06:02] Every single time had they never seen Temple of Doom? No apes driving cars and smoking cigars wearing glasses sitting in a boardroom stuff like that. Again I would totally see that movie. It sounds like a much better movie than this movie.

[01:06:18] There was a series of like live action shorts that they would play before movies in like the 30s and 40s called Dogville unrelated to the Lars van Trier thing. That is just like horrible animal abuse but it's incredible to watch.

[01:06:34] Where the entire thing is we make dogs do human things. So they're like it's a big day at the dog restaurant. And they're all these dogs who are in costumes like tied to chairs sitting at like a dinner table

[01:06:47] and then they've trained a dog to like carry a tray and walk and pretend he's a waiter. And it feels like Fox just wanted to make that. Like can we just have apes do things like that will be interesting to people.

[01:06:59] Well if there was a planet of the apes you know they'd be doing those things. So maybe they were right and Tim Burton was wrong. I don't know I don't think I don't think he was wrong because I don't think he made a

[01:07:11] choice. Right in the absence of the goofy shit you're talking about they have substituted kind of nothing. Absolutely nothing generic matrixy action. They ride horses they have kind of like bad wire helmets. There's some wire work. So bad swords. The moment I wanted to talk about was when

[01:07:32] Walbert gets the gun and then the movie like that's like a moment where now like the he's got power. Yes. And then the monkey just breaks it instantly destroys it. Just move on. Yes.

[01:07:42] And it makes it made me so mad seeing it again now because I haven't watched it since it was in theaters. No you don't rewatch it annually. No. I hate it. I hate this movie. I hate hearing you guys talk about it. I don't like talking about it.

[01:07:56] But that sucks. That is like such an obvious moment to let Mark Wahlberg character now have like some power against the monkeys but they're just like no we're gonna take that away.

[01:08:08] It's why I think the Charlton Hesse scene is kind of interesting because it's almost an idea and it's almost an idea that's original to this movie because in the original series all the apes have

[01:08:17] guns right. Yeah they are more advanced in general. Yeah but they have like rifles and they have pistols. They also have nets and like you know like billy clubs like they have all types of weapons but firearms are not a thing that they have not figured out.

[01:08:33] Okay this movie is saying like humans have guns. Right it's saying that apes kind of their ceiling is like ancient Rome. Like that's as bad as they can have like a civilization but it's ancient.

[01:08:44] Right and that's like the dark secret is like they figured out that humans have guns. They took the guns away from the humans and tried to rewrite history so that guns don't exist and that humans have always been a lesser species because they know if humans get

[01:08:56] access to guns the whole thing is over which is kind of an interesting idea. Again if you want to dig into it right if you want to explore that that is a thing you

[01:09:04] could do. Right and it almost then like gets in this thing of like we're the apes right. Like they created a new society because they knew humans were too relying on a destructive

[01:09:14] technology. Exactly. It's no good. It is no good but you're like that's almost a hook for a screenplay. Sure right but their society sucks. It's evolved they see that guns are actually the primitive

[01:09:25] thing and so they like you know enslave humans hide guns inside like very well made artisanal fire drops where no one would look. Yeah where no one was looking because it couldn't physically be inside

[01:09:39] it yeah but then yeah no what's the ape society it's like David Warner is like an old senator. You don't really see like what is the government what is the government is I mean in the

[01:09:51] fate is like in charge but all his decisions are just like him going like counting humans like I mean he doesn't like have a lot of like like tactics. Yeah no right. No just beating on people and jumping and jumping onto his horse very dramatically.

[01:10:06] And you're also like is like is they viewed as like the Charles Manson of like this ape society in the way that he's just like constantly like hunch over and like sort of talking to himself

[01:10:16] about like I'm thinking humans dirty human. No he's the Abraham Lincoln of well he becomes as as as another indicator of the badness of Captain Leo Davidson he doesn't defeat him or kill him

[01:10:32] he leaves him there right just literally just like he when he leaves the planet right yeah because he just feels like it he leaves them in a cell he leaves they'd behind right totally fine they'd somehow gets access to another spaceship right that's the only way to explain

[01:10:47] the right is that they'd beat him there yes he found a spaceship I mean it doesn't it's to the ending still makes no sense to me now there's some sort of DVD insert do you who who was telling me

[01:10:58] about this I was telling you about this we talked about in one of the commentary episodes but the DVD literally came with a paper insert that explains this because the movie does not has

[01:11:06] a timeline and chose like wormhole like physics well explain it I cannot tell you I mean David if you want to look at trying to find it yeah supposedly like first one in last one out is the idea

[01:11:20] yeah I mean because I don't you have to believe that the the purple cloud itself has some sort of governing law right that it's not a random you know what I'm saying yes because it sends

[01:11:34] people out at different times but the times are close enough in relation to each other and it's only a link between two different planets right it was just they'd who got onto earth

[01:11:44] how did he make all the monkeys well we don't that's the bar that's the part one part of about three thousand parts that makes no sense there's one alright so there's one thing

[01:11:54] some people think that he doesn't make it to earth who's he okay uh-huh he just goes in the purple cloud and then goes into the future of this is the more of this planet of the same

[01:12:06] planet the same planet of the except we see like I know when he left they were all like and will never fight again but also I'm pretty sure in that at the end of the movie though like he

[01:12:20] like they show Saturn and they show him flying to earth and in the screen okay well look the screen on his computer says earth like you have to willfully ignore actual evidence on screen

[01:12:31] that's a fair point and I know I mean Burton sing is mostly just like I don't know like they're needed to be room for a sequel like he was like whoever made the next one is gonna let them figure

[01:12:42] that out that's truly how he talks about it yeah uh friend of the show Alec bros perry has pointed out he texted both of us knowing we were going to do this episode yes that in fact the original book ends in a way that's very similar to this

[01:12:56] sure original book is very different I believe it's a apostolate sure the epistol you mean the letters another word I miss print right uh it's very different from the original film pure

[01:13:14] yes let's see they fly back to earth and they are greeted by a field officer who is a gorilla is at the end of the book they should throw this movie out yeah they should but I mean they

[01:13:25] should drag it into the the uh the garbage on their desktop and even if you yes even if you sort of accept okay well if you go into the cloud first that doesn't mean you're gonna come out

[01:13:41] first or yada yada yada right it doesn't really explain how uh how he gets how fade would get so far back in time but let's just accept no let's just accept that he does like even if fade is able

[01:13:52] to find a spaceship inside the the desiccated thousand-year-old ruins of this thing right they also explode at one point yeah like let's say he finds a spaceship it works he goes he uses it

[01:14:04] he goes back to the past he creates this this alternate timeline where apes are now in charge of earth uh huh that still requires mark wallberg when he comes there of all the places on earth to

[01:14:17] let crash land yes he literally lands at the at the lincoln memorial right which is now the fade memorial yes just so they can have a riff on the statue of liberty now that you put it all

[01:14:31] in some state memorial to the state yeah I call it the fade memorial yeah if I'm there right yeah no that's the fade memorial yeah you mean in our world yeah it's the fade that's fair all right here

[01:14:42] is a dvd here's an explanation okay time on earth and time on apes planet move in opposite direction david's using his hands because the storm moves in opposite directions you know what i'm saying

[01:14:58] so that's why the oberin lands the the space station lands like first and then uh leo and then pericles even though they went so the more time that passes in between the people who go through

[01:15:11] the the cloud that further it sends them apart from each other exactly so it's like even if leo technically goes through the cloud first like some other apes go through the cloud later

[01:15:26] but they land earlier like because of so like the tony no nisi it's up oh ben ben's leaving if walberg goes into the cloud he's tapping out he's tapping out if walberg goes into the has this

[01:15:39] ever happened yeah yes definitely many times we're very tired so he wants the shoot and in general if walberg goes into the cloud five minutes after pericles does in in the law of eight time

[01:15:53] last time continue yes yes yes slower and backwards the eight time continuum right means that he lands 48 hours earlier so you go by transitive property if the mother ship goes in like a

[01:16:06] day or two after walberg that would be thousands of years right and if somehow like the only way they could kind of explain it is if in the sequel walberg goes back to the original planet and then

[01:16:19] they takes his spaceship yeah sure but that's so i mean it's another movie to clean up your mess right yeah it's still trying to find this dvd insert it's kind of like you know it is a little it is

[01:16:35] sort of evocative of like the part of back to the future two where he shows up in evil 1985 right if you didn't like explain how any of it worked or you showed biff in the time machine or you did

[01:16:46] any of that stuff and you just stopped the movie right there and also to ben's point when the mother ship lands on the right it's this the dvd insert is doing what i'm describing which is

[01:16:55] it's showing how like the later you leave on one end the earlier you arrive on the other because as this dvd insert boldly proclaim yeah time does not travel in a straight line through an electromagnetic

[01:17:09] storm who could you imagine just mark walberg wants to take this things lunch money this inserts lunch maybe i misunderstood though doesn't the doesn't the oberon or the the spaceship that

[01:17:22] we're somehow going to have in 10 years because the human part of the movie is set in 2029 yeah can't wait doesn't that ship go in as a result of walberg's yes they're trying to find so how did

[01:17:32] they wind up if they only went in i'm gonna assume at best days or weeks after he goes in how did they wind up thousands of years ago well that's the idea is that time moves so much slower

[01:17:42] that if walberg goes in five minutes after pericles that results in two days earlier all right transit i'm gonna pretend i understand what you're saying yes but to ben's point the oberon goes

[01:17:55] in and they have all the apes that they've been like experimenting on sure so that's enough of a species that if it lands over thousands of years can evolve into an entire race yes but but and

[01:18:08] learn how to talk right sure you go over time if they you know whatever yeah but then you go how did they get i don't know this is this is futile well no but what do you mean because like clearly

[01:18:19] yeah as long as you landed on earth at a specific moment you would have jeeps and lincoln memorials and washington malls everything would be the same except for apes that's the thing because the

[01:18:30] ape culture is so radically different yeah right right why would all of a sudden the ape culture that was firmly developed on ape planet you know what it's like go ahead bear city do you

[01:18:42] remember bear city i know bear city was an s and l sketch it was like a pre digital short thing in the early 2000s i think was made tshon shannon and it was bear city was like they were rough on plant of

[01:18:54] the apes where the bears got smart and they decided to kill all the humans but they just took over doing what humans were doing sure they didn't rebuild society they just put on humans clothes

[01:19:04] and then just started there doing their best impressions of how humans act right because it seems like apes have different enough brains that they wouldn't be like and of course this is what

[01:19:14] a police uniform looks like not just like they kept the national mall right like you know buy-in-law right i just feel like it's so instructive to washington monument still like there it looks

[01:19:26] exactly the same i feel like it's very instructive though to compare like this movie with the original one when you're comparing the endings which they very clear we're like well that one has

[01:19:35] statue liberty right this one we got to have some kind of monument you gotta have something crazy happen at the end but like the right it's got to be a shocking moment at the end of planet of the apes

[01:19:44] explains everything that is the moment that makes it all make sense why it's a well-regarded ending and this movie is the moment where you're like what the fuck like what and they start explaining it

[01:19:54] earlier because you have the little girl doll which he's trying to make sense of is there are clues you're not gonna like the answer sure it's not right it's not like it comes out of

[01:20:03] think that we should all be damned to hell honestly you may just yet damn us all that's the other thing too like it ends with heston having his moment of like oh no like would you need that

[01:20:14] rather than wallberg just like wall looks like in contrast what's going on yeah what's going on what do you mean yada sam adams like he it's that level of like confusion i mean the fact that

[01:20:27] apes have rebuilt the Abraham Lincoln memorial yeah it's not even like shock it's more just like kind of bled it's just like ah what ah i didn't know was that late it's that sort of like

[01:20:38] i think i got it you got it you figured it out you went to the bathroom and you cracked this cracked it uh what made you crack it taking a shit taking a piss okay um he goes to the planet

[01:20:49] right he's on earth it's all mark walborks now it's planted on the walborks this is your your rewrite that's the better ending oh i see and then he's just like oh this is rule this rules

[01:21:04] and then they're just like oh yeah they like he high fives the cop walburgers for all yeah america it's just an endless an endless line of wallberg i don't know i mean we you and i have

[01:21:20] both talked about david how weird this phenomenon is because this is one of the last times where like a movie made a ton of money right and the studio was like we probably shouldn't make a sequel

[01:21:30] right the studio was wisely like we got out of this disaster with our heights you know like we got out of this thing made a profit right there's no thing to complain about but i'm twice literally

[01:21:40] like probably i mean got a b-minus cinema score it's pretty bad for a big blockbuster and like it's just obviously no one wants right uh you know whatever other than paul giamatti could you

[01:21:52] write nobody else's meetings of the planet of the but they let it rest 10 years and then came with the most different interpretation possible and when they released that one i was like what are

[01:22:04] they thinking like this thing looks like a disaster they picked a nobody director for it they picked james franco yeah is their top liner and yeah freedom pinto john lithko yeah um like and then

[01:22:17] it did pretty well yeah it was like a sensation but did pretty well but like for a late august movie and then it got really good reviews uh because they weren't screening until the last second everyone's

[01:22:28] like this is going to be a fucking disaster and then i remember like the embargo going up like 12 hours before the movie came out people being like this thing's actually really well directed

[01:22:38] uh right it's you know whatever roober Wyatt he did the gambler with mark lorbert he took a big gamble on one sure did um and then like i'm it's just interesting to me because it's like

[01:22:51] you don't automatically make a sequel to that one either no it may gross less than the Burton yeah but they were that movie was good enough i guess that they were like now we can probably get a

[01:23:03] good sequel out of this and they were right they were correct yeah and uh sometimes a guy's box executives are right i guess i don't know how else to put it i mean like batman begins is a

[01:23:13] similar thing where when you actually look at the numbers that movie was not very profitable because it costs a lot right and it didn't make a ton because i think there was still the post batman

[01:23:22] and robin sing yeah but they just knew like we're on to something here double down and then like dark night explodes right uh but this was the opposite and like you hear now like really

[01:23:31] like james gun is like gonna do suicide squad right like they feel vat focused on trying to make another suicide squad movie bizarre right when they're already making a harley quinn movie

[01:23:43] like who wants this right like why do you need another one again it's like you got out of suicide squad alive right the reviews were terrible but you made some money movie made no sense at all

[01:23:51] you got margo robbie out of it and right you know maybe you gotta build something better out of that but i go like the same thing with like you're gonna make fantastic beast three like you're

[01:24:00] really that's different yeah that thing still i think they're just sort of like they they're locked in like they're like we cannot make wizarding world exactly if you were a warner brother's executive wouldn't you go jk rolling and be like you got any other ideas we'll make

[01:24:15] any we'll green like any other idea you have i would take place in this unit i would more be interested like more be going to her and being like i know you pitched us five but can

[01:24:23] we make this three movies like can we wrap this up yeah can we leave it on the dance floor yeah like because and can't that Broadway show can't we do that as a thing maybe yeah

[01:24:33] they must be begging to do that my god but um uh like because i believe it was a five movie pitch for fantastic beast right it's supposed to be five i believe and as far as i know fantastic

[01:24:44] beast two was set and still a little set in the 20s or whatever right right uh i i didn't see it you were the only one at this table who committed the crimes of grindlewald i think right did you

[01:24:53] see him at i did i could not tell you when it was when it was set off god damn crimes i'm gonna look it up now because like yeah 1927 i've read the hurry potter books

[01:25:02] grindlewald is defeated in 1945 that's a that's definitely a problem for our theory that they're going to just make one more saying it's like he's got a lot more crimes to commit are we putting

[01:25:10] the pedal to the metal over here like when grindlewald's done some crimes okay yeah but like the first one was set 1926 so i was thinking this one would be set in like 32 no 27 i'm like

[01:25:26] maybe the movies are about how like frustrating the legal system is that they still can't find something to pin like grindlewald's the jeffrey x dean of his time he just keeps on somehow

[01:25:38] slipping through the cracks i don't know i mean yeah it is a weird thing like you know because people were like oh that movie's a big bomb and fox was always like no it was like

[01:25:48] very profitable it was like one of our biggest hits right it's spurtons fourth highest grossing movie ever i believe yeah but we just knew like there wasn't a demand for a sequel and now if

[01:25:57] they've like committed to a thing being a franchise they will push it uphill by hooker by crook right it made let's play the box office game 180 million dollars domestic it's more than you would

[01:26:09] think by a lot because it even multiplied well like it had a huge opening weekend for its time it was one of the biggest opening weekends 68 million i think that was maybe the number

[01:26:19] two opening weekend of all time after this and i because i previously said rush hour was the number two but rush hour two comes out after this and does a million less sure these two movies do

[01:26:29] like 69 million back to back right this opens to 69 right right i remember because i was in 12 and i thought that was one i was 68.5 oh so okay i thought the estimates were funny yearly estimates um

[01:26:44] and let's talk about its opening weekend it opens number one okay 68 number two is the third film this is sorry this is july 27 2001 right the third film in a big franchise

[01:26:58] the third film yes the final film in a big franchise no but for a while it looked like it could have been this is a long gap between the three and four Jurassic park three that's correct Joe

[01:27:11] Johnson's underrated you and i both rip roaring what is it like 92 minutes the best or movie yeah like where he's just like can't they just go to a fucking island and there's like a bunch of

[01:27:24] dinosaurs and they run around and then they leave not a perfect film but an example of a movie that just like does the basics that it needs to do is a tight little thriller gets in gets out yeah

[01:27:33] yeah and then you know now we're besieged with the opposite of that kind of a movie right where it's like it needs to be like a haunted house movie but also about human cloning and

[01:27:42] also there needs to be like a volcano that goes off from yeah i'm not gonna invoke sorry what you're not gonna what i'm not gonna invoke the captain the captain but did you read

[01:27:53] an interviews that he said that what inspired him to make his screenplay for fallen kingdom that way was a bridge of spies what what what does that mean what would that mean he said that he liked

[01:28:07] that bridge of spies was like two different movies like each half was a different movie and he was like i want to try to do that so one half like is it is a volcano adventure and the other half

[01:28:16] is a haunted house auction yeah anyway okay number three is it was like a big it was pitches a big comedy of the summer because of its like huge cast oh it was kind of underwhelming america sweetheart america sweetheart oh my gosh joe roth's

[01:28:35] america sweetheart because this is the first year of revolution right revolution starts sure around then anyway tom catz is the first film that revolution ever releases i believe that's 2001 and it was a big deal that like joe roth is starting a new studio right

[01:28:50] and the big thing was he made a couple people's careers so he's gonna get big movie stars to make their films one time they're gonna show up for him sandler did it like three or four times

[01:29:00] because he gave sandler water boy right and uh and julia i think did the no because monolith small i want to say was revolution two anyway let's see it was it was him directing him directing

[01:29:13] mistake number one yeah of many yeah and then getting but billy crystal wrote it billy crystal wrote it yeah katham jade jones was like really on the up and up sure that i think weirdly is still

[01:29:27] i was gonna say it's john q sex highest grossing phone but i think 2012 out grossed sure america sweetheart but up until that point it was his only hundred million dollar mode did not make a hundred million dollars 99 93 more more than you would have thought not a memorable

[01:29:43] movie no it's not no no i have seen it but uh do not really remember i remember christopher walkins at the end it's like senator junkie right back supporting cast it's like a press junk it's a

[01:29:53] junk it i remember billy crystal explaining his idea for the movie which was so convoluted but she was like is is that the one is it's julie roberts like the ugly sister in it she

[01:30:02] literally i think there's like a literally cast julie roberts is like the ugly sister yeah but she's not the lea like she's kind of a supporting no she's the lead ends up but she's not in it the movie is

[01:30:14] pretty on somberly it's on being the romantic she's the romantically because it's about q sex end up together falling for her you know when he's being positioned is like he's the movie star who is

[01:30:25] he's in the movie with katherine zeta jones and tom hanks megrine she is her assistant maybe she's the first the first why do i remember these hey man the first movie to come out post breakup

[01:30:37] for them but it's a movie that thinks that american audiences are going to be very interested in the inner workings of a press of a press channel yes right right because seph green is trying to

[01:30:45] figure out like what to put on like the buffet anyway i don't know number four is a winning and popular comedy of the year scram movie too no that's number nine okay 2001 it's a winning and

[01:31:01] popular comedy a surprise hit oh legally blonde legally blonde nice a good one robert leuketics legally blonde yeah what should have been a resource of spoons uh second on screen win yeah wow who wins that year hailey berry 2001 is hailey berry right yeah 2002 i think that's

[01:31:21] 2001 i said give it to rice that year that was kind of a stacked year though that was we had sissy space sec you know and uh i don't remember that's 2001 you're 2001 hailey berry sissy space 2001

[01:31:34] uh what i mean jennifer collin went supporting uh you have judy dench is iris you have nicole from london rouge and you have renais for bridget jones i stand by my state comedy slot i

[01:31:44] stand by my statement rice with this one should have won best actress number five is a film we've talked about on this podcast for its famous production process it's a heist movie oh with major

[01:31:56] stars oh it is a film ocean's 11 nope no it is a film called the score oh robertineiro directed marlon brando right through your piece because marlon brando didn't want to listen to miss pig and when

[01:32:10] marlon brando also did scenes pantless because you want to force frank has to use club so yes and yeah you're your brando pressure i.e the film that taught me how to become an act

[01:32:22] tricks i still employ to this day they still work huh yeah they still work david you know here on a blank check we like to look back a lot because we're kind of sure there's a context it's a retrospective right hindsight right but what do you want to

[01:32:36] what do you listen to if you're looking for the context of what's happening right now you want people to address the big wheelings and dealings and news items of the film world of

[01:32:44] today i'm totally adrift i don't know what to do slash film cast baby of course you gotta check in at the slash film cast yes david chen yeah uh divindra harwar i mean they're they're gonna

[01:32:55] address everything that's that's going on all the rumors all the hot takes all the reactions you know it's it's context in progress it's history in the making david i mean i also just like because it's like intelligent people talking about movies you seem to be saying that it's

[01:33:14] some sort of like history defining thing where they're like writing opinions in stone i'll teach their own i do think podcasts are written in stone as they should be they're recorded each

[01:33:24] onto a stone tablet um do we do that with our podcast we do do we have a stone library uh yeah okay there go the slash film cast it's like the 10 commandments these stones i tells you

[01:33:37] so give her a listen you don't have to yell you should listen to the slash film cast it's it's a great podcast uh it's it's weekly or even more maybe sometimes they do a little daily

[01:33:49] guy yeah and you got you got great minds you got great discussion and uh check it out yeah check it out wherever you get your podcasts uh yeah you also got dr do little two sure remember big

[01:34:03] farting set piece yeah uh cats and dogs uh yeah which cats and dogs go to war a weirdly successful film the fasten the fear is equal to that they did they did the foot fast and what what is that

[01:34:16] furious i'm not familiar with it i don't think that one ever went anywhere too bad god you know what i'm not into i'm sorry guys i'm not into it here's my i don't like that trailer it feels

[01:34:28] too like pleased with itself if it wasn't called fast and furious would you be all right with it i mean it was called my take if it was called tango if it was called tango and cash

[01:34:37] like if they just straight up we're like we're just doing tango and cash i think i'd maybe be slightly more interested i would be interested in stay them because i'm enjoying this part of

[01:34:45] stay them i'm sick of the rock oh no i'm gonna you're turning heel on the rock a little bit i'm a little sick of him not like i'm not like furious with him or anything but it's just like

[01:34:57] what i'll say you know he's kind of doing he's got like two things he's doing one or the other he's sort of narrowed in on something and he's just doing it over and over he doesn't

[01:35:07] even i mean people have pointed out that he doesn't even change the costume at this point it's just like get me a khaki button down you should have zips yeah i saw cargo before cargo

[01:35:15] pockets khaki button down with cargoes and i'm ready to go i said this before but he brags about the fact that he only sleeps like 80 minutes a night and i look at him in one of his four

[01:35:24] movies that he makes per year now and i go you look tired you look a little gauging gauge buddy um i will say this though i agree with you i've been in a similar position

[01:35:34] with the rock but i'm a little encouraged because for the first time in a long time he's actually working with good genre directors right i you know i like david leach he's doing a jayme call it sarah

[01:35:45] i haven't loved david leach yet but he can make an action sequence cut together yes you know tomahawk blonde was one of those movies where like i walked out and like before i even crossed the

[01:35:55] threshold of the theater i was like wait what what was happening in memory like you know and the deadpool 2 is horrible like fucking horrible but you know it's got some okay action i'm waiting

[01:36:07] for the kg cut yeah sure well with one more re-religion i'll just keep going until i hit g did you see how many screens a very whatever deadpool christmas or whatever was opened on in china please how many

[01:36:19] did you see how many screens open on in china what five thousand thirty two thousand screens what did you see that is does that cut exist because the regular deadpool couldn't get approved in china

[01:36:30] possibly i don't make sense that was like there was this thing where like the chinese bar is like oh it made 21 million dollars opening weekend in china i was like oh that's a lot

[01:36:38] and then it was like on 32 000 screens it's a 600 per screen average it was basically no one there but they opened it in 32 000 screens it seems high 32 000 they were putting screens up in other places like a super market is there like a 40 screen multiplex that's just like it's

[01:36:59] only the deadpool movie every classroom in china pulled down the screen and the projector started playing like china has i think about five times our population not not it's not like the multiplier is not enough like it's about five times our population and a hundred times our deadpool

[01:37:18] just crazy anyway uh no the jane callott sarah doing jungle cruise has me a little excited my biggest problem with the rock has been him like working with rasta marshal thurber and

[01:37:28] grad payton who is the man who directed the cats and dogs sequel yeah like he found these kind of journeymen guys who clearly they were beholden to him right i like him working with people who are

[01:37:37] actual stylists right you know it's a big difference between the rock and uh schwarzzenegger schwarzzenegger is willing to give himself over to directors totally well you got the

[01:37:47] i mean yeah you know he's an artist right he is he is the rock is an artist i think also and the rock has talked so much about how much he was spooked by um southland tales yeah flopping

[01:37:59] and i feel like that scared him off anything too freaky or you know risky it makes sense you look at the movies he makes now and that makes perfect sense he also it's just like he's

[01:38:08] so much like a businessman you know where i just now more and more start to see the sort of mechanisms behind everything he does very calculate i wish he would just do an instagram

[01:38:17] video where he's like i'm excited for hobbs and shaw i made it because i got in a fight with vindiesel and i like money you know what i mean like it's like this is uh something i did because

[01:38:25] i enjoy making money and it's kind of just like a movie to come out in the summer but it's not going to be very good okay is everyone excited every time he like he always has to be like

[01:38:33] this is it my culture like is intersecting with my action hero start him and like you know it's like it's just the fucking you know billionth movie you made where you drive a car

[01:38:43] into someone like it doesn't have to be so weighty he posted especially because the movies are so lacking in any yeah like thematic weight when uh when he was shooting rampage he posted one of

[01:38:57] those things where it was like i remember being a five-year-old my father bringing me the zoo and pointing at the animals and going you can trust animals no way you can't trust humans

[01:39:06] because animals always show you what they think exactly what i'm talking about right i want to make a movie about that and it's like it was like a fucking like a fucking ulysses he wrote as like

[01:39:15] his instagram comment like it was like five thousand words long um uh there was something else i was gonna say about him oh a thing on his instagram is that he has been more and more talking about

[01:39:26] tequila and how much he loves tequila and doing tequila shots on set so he's gonna do a cloney yeah 100 but i'm so mechanical because a tequila never used to be part of his brand right and now

[01:39:37] everything's like you know my regular breakfast tequila and my oatmeal are you okay he's an alcoholic because he wants to launch a tequila brand because he clearly got jealous of how much money cloney made making tequila well i hope he's not physically capable of making more

[01:39:57] movies so he has to do something else at the same time yeah maybe he needs to make more ballers what if baller suddenly was like on a days of our live schedule and there was like

[01:40:10] 40 episodes of ballers per year he'd find a way like he has some pains that he makes 100 episodes oh god and now i'm just looking at his fucking uh instagram it's just look i love the rock

[01:40:25] i've been with him for 20 years yeah i've known him since i was a boy yeah you know i watched wrestling when i was a kid you know all that shit like i it's not i've enjoyed his rise to stardom i just

[01:40:37] yeah i'm getting a little tired of just feels like the exact same movie yeah he needs to make a different movie yes i'm a little a little hopeful for uh for joncle curse you got a good cast

[01:40:49] around him i i mean it could be good it could be good it is also another movie where he plays a guy with a kekishir correct an action movie isn't jungle creatures like the african queen

[01:40:59] sure but it's gonna be disney rye it's connected by like the our weirdest i love joncle is there yeah i love the guy but it's going to be like the planet of the apes of this kind of

[01:41:08] movie because it's going to be all it's not going to be the african it's going to be like the african queen if it was all an action movie right right exactly um and i have no idea what

[01:41:16] the third jumanji movie is going to be but like i can't imagine that thing rushed to production you know like with whatever script they could find is going to be like a really justified sequel

[01:41:25] all the cast editions are really weird too is it like aquafina danie glover and danie devito i believe that's yes i'm just looking for one cast those those names are listed here on the imdb uh

[01:41:37] nick jonis is not involved which is a great nick jonis it's nick jonis right is it nick jonis yeah that's the worst performance i've ever seen in a film i'm sorry i was i was like i i

[01:41:49] was a gas i remember i kept warning you from planet of the apes just went i we saw that together it was crazy right you turned to me your best line was you turned to me and

[01:42:01] just said like during his second scene when your blood was already in a boil you turned to me and said there are other actors why did they hire him it's crazy it's a crazy performance it makes no sense oh my god that yeah who all right

[01:42:24] great job guys what a great podcast by all of us a good time that's ready okay i'm gonna matt i'm gonna pimp you out okay hell yeah wait is that a good thing or a bad idea because it

[01:42:34] would go either way it's i think it's a good thing okay you of course are a connoisseur of movie tie-in meals yes now uh this film had a lot of like marketing promotional partners

[01:42:47] there's a big thing where this movie they did geocaching do you remember when that was a thing vaguely right what there's a variety article about how they were like we've planted plan of the

[01:42:58] apes props in seven different locations around the world what you have to get well we're calling a gps device it was a hundred dollar device that was just a gps to try to locate these props and

[01:43:10] they were like the world is going to engage in like a plan of the scavenger hunt they had Reebok ads they had all this shit but they didn't have any food tie-ins right and the the Caesar

[01:43:19] trilogy later didn't have any food tie-ins do you feel like there are now with especially with denny's who are kind of running the table yeah on tie-in menu items or the chance you have an

[01:43:29] idea of what you think would be a good i mean bananas obviously yeah the obvious thing right smoothies smoothies Hongskol island it was just like bigger gigantic burgers but but but kong is huge

[01:43:43] like it's not like that kind of work yeah boy you're really putting me on the what's the worst one you ever had to do of those fucking things that you have to do that i forced myself to do

[01:43:53] yeah no i have to do it right no but you know what i'm saying like um what's the one at the end where you were like like jesus the the i think the independence day one independence

[01:44:04] independence day re-resert resurgence that one had a lot of it had like a hundred items right oh and it was all bacon right for some reason they decided that that was a denny's the theme that was denny's

[01:44:15] yeah they were like the theme of this movie is and how it connects to us is bacon it is crazy how much more work denny's is doing than any of their competitors these days because like when

[01:44:26] aquaman came out i was like oh there's like an aquaman tie-in a burger king i'm gonna like get the aquaman sandwich and bring it in and we'll eat it on mic and there was no aquaman sandwich

[01:44:36] no no it's like there has to be some dumb like fish with bacon that they call like the curry burger right you know right right or maybe it's fish with curry sauce or whatever i don't know i think

[01:44:45] cold stone creamery had some sort of special aquaman ice cream but they didn't have any items cold stone and pinkberry each had their own like ocean blueberry yeah i don't know i hop i mean

[01:44:58] i hop is the one other peep person in this or person entity in this space showing up to play yeah they had everything green for the grinch that was the last one oh how was that green pancakes

[01:45:10] were the flavors different or were they just tasted well they were like incredibly sweet it had it was like a green pancake with like literally like like icing on top and and and little red

[01:45:21] candy hearts yeah yeah it was a lot because his heart is timing exactly you got it okay i mean that's better than bacon for independence day at least it makes some sense it sounds pretty american

[01:45:35] that's true um matt thank you so much for being on the show it was really my pleasure i love this movie so much it was so great to revisit it you begged and i've been waiting for i've been

[01:45:49] waiting for 18 years for a legitimate excuse to watch it oh one thing i want to say the elfman score the opening theme when you're on the credits you're like whoa this is crazy and then

[01:45:59] like the score that like is the rest of the time is just boring i thought the same as i think i was watching i was like wow the score is actually pretty fun banging theme like all that weird

[01:46:08] percussion and totally forgets it right he i think he just worked so hard on that and then i don't know like maybe he like heard his leg or something i just forgot to do the rest or

[01:46:18] saw the rest and was like this is not worth it right why am i why am i using the a material here right the opening credit sequence is like if they had like a temporary exhibit at the museum

[01:46:27] moving image and you got to see the costumes up close and you're like i guess there was some good craft in this movie right like when they're doing those detail shots of the helmets and stuff

[01:46:35] and the opening credits you're like some of this looks cool feels very sol bass to me yes if sol bez had done the original plan of the apes yes opening titles which he did not no so i'm

[01:46:45] not sure why poster right i feel like there's a poster that looks very sol basking who knows someone i'm not going to look it up now uh matt thank you for being here sure uh david thank you

[01:46:58] for being here anything you want to plug matt no okay all right are there any time meals on the horizon i don't tend to not get like much of a heads up no they just kind of emerge people

[01:47:10] they do them very quietly i guess yeah you can just follow me on twitter at matt singers that's if there is one you'll find a smart follow and all the all the good follow anything anything good

[01:47:19] worth that i that's worth sharing i'll just post there anyway so right yeah i guess that would be about it right uh thank you for listening is a thing i'll say and i'll say is uh please remember

[01:47:29] to rate review subscribe right um if i can add to that i would say uh thanks to lay monkari for a theme song uh addendum to my last note thanks to angford gruda for our

[01:47:39] social media track this out uh post script uh thanks to johann farrer for our work ben is taking a nap thanks to general fade too thanks to general fade build him a monument thanks to

[01:47:52] for whom he saved the planet add a it makes no sense memory general fade pericles in shrine forever dana uh captain leo davidson love you uh thanks to big ups to captain leo dirty chris christofferson

[01:48:09] he's so dirty built though arms on we got some guns he really does we didn't talk about the fact that he exists in this movie to die yeah i don't know to kind of look like hestiny sort of

[01:48:21] like he's got like a hestiny vibe he does yeah uh i don't know what to say i mean is it kind of a you know look maybe maybe this is like a fizzle out ending but this at least replicates how i

[01:48:31] felt walking out of the theater going like no dad it was good right i mean there were some scenes that we like it should be an exasperating experience if you're gonna really nail this movie we left at

[01:48:39] that aspirin choke right yeah uh and then yeah and then after this he uh he makes a big big fash we're gonna talk about next week yes okay do you have anything else to say i don't know no it's

[01:48:54] been great great episode another great episode put it in the hall of fame yep uh well as and as always i live i can't even think about anything else i've exhausted every single thing i could

[01:49:06] possibly say around this movie right so what's what's the end end as always what is it is it just us throwing up our hands and a feet sure purple cloud okay so it's maybe we just say

[01:49:17] purple cloud okay heracles here so i'm just gonna say both of heracles box okay ready i'm this is what i'm gonna do here we go we're showing the process now people know how the sausage

[01:49:28] is made ready it's not usually how it's made to be clear no this is always how it's made we cut this part out and this time we're leaving it in it's usually a tense negotiation at the end of

[01:49:35] the episode to settle what the end is always is then keep it in a doubling it and as always pericles fucks a purple cloud