Twin Peaks: The Return (Episodes 14-18) with Jane Schoenbrun

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Blank Check is Blank Check.

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_09]: What podcast is this?

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_09]: That's what you told me to do.

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's what you should do. It doesn't matter. We have to talk about the show.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, never say it doesn't matter. Never say it doesn't matter.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Sometimes I think the opening quote we pick doesn't totally matter.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_09]: I think it matters so much. Weird, I've never gotten that vibe from you that you think it doesn't matter.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_09]: It's just sometimes we spend 20 minutes, not 20 minutes, but 10 minutes picking your quote.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_09]: We've never spent 20 minutes. We've never spent 20 minutes. I think it matters.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Beginnings are important. We're here with a storyteller.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_08]: Do you want to take it again?

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_09]: No.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_09]: No, absolutely not. Beginnings are important, right?

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It's actually all the beginning and end.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: You hear that, David?

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Those are the things people remember the most.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_09]: The quotes and the end as always. That's the rule of storytelling.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, how does TV Glow begin? What's the first shot of TV Glow?

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_02]: First shot of TV Glow is slow pan down that street.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You get the ice cream truck.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Good opening.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Good opening.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You need a good opening.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the rest of it.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Who cares?

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_07]: People have already filed their Letterboxd review at that point.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_07]: They just get their phone out and they're like, eh, four stars.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Pretty good.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, right.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_09]: They've taken out their phones.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_09]: They've photographed the title card.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_09]: They've logged it on Letterboxd.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_09]: They've sang along.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_09]: They've sang along.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_09]: And they've walked out after 30 minutes.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_09]: The State of Muigang.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_09]: The State of Muigang.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_09]: 2024.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Did you?

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Did anyone go to a Wicked screening where people sang along?

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_09]: I did not experience that.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_09]: I saw Wicked, of course, in 40X where I think physically it'd be hard to sing.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_09]: The chairs were singing along.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen Wicked, James?

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I have not seen Wicked yet.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You haven't gotten Wicked yet.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But I literally have asked all of my friends to see Wicked with me.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And no one wants to go.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to see Wicked alone.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_09]: I think the people won't stop singing during Wicked shit is a little bit of like, there

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_09]: are murders happening every two steps in New York City story.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_09]: You know?

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_09]: I think there's an overstatement of how much this is like an epidemic.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, sure.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: There's also like movies where you want the audience to be shouting at the movie.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You want roundiness.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_09]: I think the mistake was not simultaneously releasing a sing-along cut, which I just saw

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_09]: there now from Christmas day on.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_09]: They're readying that.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_09]: That's what we'll be playing.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_09]: 100%.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Will there be a little broomstick that like touches all the words?

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_09]: I assume so.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_09]: I assume so.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Or a grim word.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_09]: What's the...

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Grimmery?

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Grimmery.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_09]: A little grimmery.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_09]: This is stuff you don't know, Jane.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_09]: You haven't opened the grimmery yet.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I know very little about the plot of Wicked and I'm so excited because I love lore.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You know?

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, fuck.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Then you will like it.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_07]: You're gonna like it.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Because Wicked, the book especially, but the musical too is basically like, I feel like

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_07]: there's more opportunity to plumb this lore guys and make up our own lore and kind of

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_07]: put it on top.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You want shit explained?

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And I am also a big fan of Return to Oz.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I assume you guys have seen Return to Oz.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Love Return to Oz.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_07]: I think a movie we'd love to cover somehow.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Soul directing credit.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Soul directing credit.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_07]: But obviously we could do an Oz series on our Patreon.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Series, which we pitched before, previously would have included Oz the Great and Powerful,

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_09]: which now we've covered through Raimi, but we could include Wicked in this now.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of dreamy, huh?

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, unfortunately.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Have you seen Oz the Great and Powerful?

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_09]: No, I can't say.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Half has the lore.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_07]: The lore is bad.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_07]: The lore is awful and unfortunate because it should be all lore.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_09]: That's part of the huge failure of that lore.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_07]: That's another attempt to be like, let's explain why the Wicked Witch is the way she is.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Coming from a completely different direction.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Her tears hurt her face.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Because she's allergic to water.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, just like Bruce Willis in Glass.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly like Bruce Willis in Glass.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Does Glass ever address that Bruce Willis could hurt himself by crying?

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Does that come up?

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_09]: No, he's an emotional guy, David Dunn.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_09]: I feel like you never see him sob, but he's often kind of like right there.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_09]: But he can drink water, right?

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they call out in the movie, you drink it too fast, you choke.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh my God.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Which is true.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, of anybody, I guess.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, how fast are we talking?

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Like a fire hose?

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Like what do you mean?

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_09]: I think with him we have to remember, spoilers, this man died in a puddle.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think, I think he could drink water pretty slowly and still make him choke.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_09]: What's our podcast?

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_09]: This is Blank Check with Griffin and David.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm Griffin.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm David.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_09]: It's a podcast about filmographies.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_09]: of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Baby.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_09]: We're concluding.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Yep.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Resolving.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_09]: We're answering all questions.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_09]: No mysteries unsolved at the end of this mini series about the films and TV of David

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Lynch called Twin Pods Firecast with me.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Of course.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Today we are covering the last five episodes of Twin Peaks The Return.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Sometimes called Twin Peaks a limited series.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Never called.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Twin Peaks season three.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, no, this is the thing.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_09]: It's never called that.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And I saw people on the Reddit asking why.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_09]: And even like they announced they're doing a reissue of the Blu-ray and the wording

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_09]: on the box is very weird.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_09]: People are like, why is it like this?

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Almost definitely contractual things about making it exist as its own piece of television

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_09]: rather than a direct continuation of the first two seasons.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_07]: NBC show.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_09]: In a way that probably has to do with not carrying over certain people.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Someone was calling out a lot of these like the Gilmore Girls Netflix season.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_09]: These things.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_09]: A year in the life.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_09]: These many years later produced for a different platform or network revivals that have a different

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_09]: subtitle.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_09]: They get to be like, this is its own show.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_09]: This is a show that is using the intellectual property, but it's a brand new television

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_09]: show.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Which is.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Which is.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Which is.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Which is.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Which is.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Which is carried along.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_07]: In this case.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Kind of works.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, this is the most, this is the case of like, yeah, it's Twin Peaks season three,

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_07]: but unlike seasons one and two, you know, there's boobs, which is the only difference.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_07]: I'd say that's.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm trying to think.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Butts.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_07]: You do see butts.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_07]: So maybe those are the two differences.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_07]: It would just be funny if Lynch gave me, he was like, there's a tits.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: We get to have tits in showtime.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I was, I was, I was watching these episodes with friends and, and my roommate who had never

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_02]: seen Twin Peaks, but actually that day had been like, I think I might start watching

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Twin Peaks.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh wow.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_02]: She came in and sat down and watched 17 and 18 with us.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And she was like, is this what the old one is like?

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And what did you say?

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_02]: We were like, no, not really at all.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the old, the old ones like, like, like cozy.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Let's say our guest today.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Very excited.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_09]: And, and talking about things our listeners ask about online.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_09]: It wasn't even a like suggestion demand thing.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_09]: I've started to see people be like, man, it'd be cool if they got Jane Schoenbrunn to do

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_09]: a Twin Peaks episode.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Would be cool.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Would be cool.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And guess what?

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_09]: We fucking did it.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Right on, right under the wire.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_09]: It's happening right under the wire.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Incredible filmmaker.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_09]: I think a filmmaker you and I are constantly very excited by and talk about as like, yeah.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm a huge fan.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Jane knows.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_09]: A very early booster.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Whatever.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_09]: No, but I feel like you, you were talking up.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Now I feel on the spot.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, they're like, they're like, hey, Jane, here's your, here's your blank check.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, actually it says $50 on this check.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_07]: You've written a number here.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Jane Schoenbrunn, filmmaker of, I saw the TV glow, one of my favorite movies of the year.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_09]: We're all going to the world's fair.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_09]: And, and Twin Peaks, the return mega fan.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Is that fair to say?

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I often describe Twin Peaks, the return as the highlight of my adult life pre transition.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_07]: I think when we last spoke, we definitely discussed the return briefly.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_07]: I know, I know it's on your sight and sound top 10 as well.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Right?

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I think so.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Pretty sure.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Let me find it.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I knew you were a fan.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to be in discourse, you know?

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not my 10, 10 favorite films on my sight and sound, but you're trying to try to say

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: like, hey guys, check this out.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You had a really cool speed racer.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Is it TV or is it movie?

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's a provocative conversation.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, give me the full 10.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, sure.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_07]: A message of the afternoon, which rocks.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, if people have never seen that, um, you know, is it TV?

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Is it short film or is it feature?

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_07]: A lot of cares.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of these are movies that I want to be released officially on Blu-ray.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_07]: So this is a chess move.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_07]: This was a chess.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Where's the friend's house?

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Karastami movie that I love.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_07]: The quince tree sun.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_07]: I've never seen.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_07]: There you go.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Cause it's not, not really available.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Is it a re say or reach?

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's a reach.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_07]: So each a movie, uh, um, Heinz.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_07]: How do you say, how do you pronounce it?

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Hyenas?

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Hyenas.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Totally fucked up.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_02]: The Gregorock movie.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Which at the time was not, not really.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, and now.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Now it is.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_07]: At least by Criterion.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Welcome to the terror drone, which I've never seen.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Check it out.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_07]: You would love to check that out.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Early Saffron Burroughs.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_05]: What happened to Saffron Burroughs?

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Great question.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Great.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you guys figure it out.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's pin that for later.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, a movie I am going to assume.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, August in the water.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I do not know that movie.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: That one you guys have to see.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this like very quiet Japanese coming of age.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Sci fi movie.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_02]: With like, with the greatest like weird synth soundtrack from the nineties.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and it's on YouTube.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very much not available in anything but terrible quality.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_07]: And then, uh, Speed Racer, which we've covered on this show.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_07]: One of my favorite movies.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Uncle Boon Me.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_07]: A wonderful movie.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_07]: How could you not?

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Come on.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And then Twin Peaks The Return.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Heard of it?

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_09]: We've been covering it on this show.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm, I'm just, I'm like, I'm scrubbing through the last episode cause there was something

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_09]: as I was finishing the series where I was like, that would be a good opening quote.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_09]: And I like drafted it in my head and I forgot it.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_09]: What was it?

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to find out or we won't.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_09]: It'll be unresolved.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Like certain plot threads at the end of Twin Peaks The Return.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_07]: So Jane, David Lynch, what is your relationship with this filmmaker beyond Twin Peaks The Return

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_07]: just in general?

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I, I, I, let me, let me see.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Twin Peaks, I think kicked it off.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember my parents would always talk about Blue Velvet as like the worst kind of movie

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you could see.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh wow.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Not like, not, not in a like, don't watch it, but just in a like, you know, like Texas

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Chainsaw Massacre is bad, but blue velvet is, you know, is another level.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, so I think it held from, from the earliest moment.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It held sort of a mystique.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Which let's just say, I'm sure we said this to some degree in the episode.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_09]: That movie is upsetting and intense.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_09]: It is wild to read the statements from the time it came out when people were just like,

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_09]: this is a new low.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_09]: This never should have happened.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_09]: This should be illegal.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_09]: There should be cops standing by the fucking ticket booth.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_09]: And you watch it now and you're like, I don't know if just like our cultures degraded

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_09]: so much, but I find like most episodes of SVU more upsetting than blue velvet.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, or maybe in content more upsetting, but maybe not like, you know, emotionally, psychologically.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, but yes, Lynch, Lynch will cut that.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_09]: That's a great snapshot of that of like your parents who probably saw it in theaters

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_09]: at the time and were just like, I can't believe that happened.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_09]: This will ruin people.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So that, that sort of loomed in the video store.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then I started watching Twin Peaks in early middle school.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It had, it had already aired on VHS.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And also I couldn't find, I remember very clearly going to the museum of television in, in California

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and LA where pre TiVo, pre DVD really, you could sit at a console and they had an archive

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and you could request episodes and you got two hours.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know much.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_09]: We've ever talked about the museum of television and radio, which is now the Paley Center.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_09]: That's right.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_09]: But was so big in my childhood as well as like this compulsive, obsessive.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: They had like everything.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: It was, it was like, I remember thinking for like months about what TV shows I would spend

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_02]: my two hours on.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Was there a time limit?

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Like it was like.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_07]: You had two hours.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_07]: In the booth?

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_07]: But they would give you whatever you wanted.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_09]: You'd go to like an ancient PC that looked like the war games computer.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_09]: That had this like terrible interface and you'd search through their archives and it was

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_09]: like, oh, now I can finally catch like the three episodes of Freaks and Geeks.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_09]: I missed when they aired literally before the DVD came out or like pull up like any random

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Johnny Carson.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Anyone like I want Johnny Carson from 1983, January 2nd.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But like get a life.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_09]: I feel like I had to watch through multiple visits, the museum of television and radio.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I grew up on the East Coast.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So this was really, it was like family vacation.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And just like, leave me here, please.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But I remember watching Twin Peaks there.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I bought a Twin Peaks fire walk with me t-shirt in sixth grade from Generation Records.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_02]: On Thompson.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Great record store.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_02]: What was on the shirt?

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I got bullied for it.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of had like.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Because they were like, oh, come on.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_07]: That movie was Buddha can.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_07]: What are you doing?

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_02]: We expected some resolution.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what the bully Rob said.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I think just for being idiosyncratic.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: That's cool.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember, I think Cooper was on there.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of had like a confused vibe to it.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And then the other childhood David Lynch thing for me was my friend Ari's parents took me and him when we were 12 to see Mulholland Drive-In Theaters.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember, like, there's this specific vibe. And sometimes I'll rewatch these movies now and be like, oh, like, I remember watching that movie just kind of being like, there's something that I'm not understanding. And it makes me like feel bad.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I go back and watch it, I'm always like, oh, it was sex.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_07]: That you, sure.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's something here that's just like not really, like, I don't understand.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_02]: What, why?

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, not to like just blow you up, but I think part of what has, like, I saw the TV glow, I think is like a masterpiece and has really stuck with me all year.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think part of what reverberates so strongly, and I know David had a similar reaction to it, but it's like we're both people who also grew up like obsessively with our sense of self tied to this stuff that we watched obsessively, needed to read into, speculate on, socialize around.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_09]: And that feeling of like, why does stuff stick with you?

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_09]: What is it saying in you that sometimes takes like years to resolve?

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And without spoiling it for people who haven't seen it, there is a moment at the end of your film where the main character, the Justice Smith character rewatches this thing that was so big in their childhood that I was like blown away by where I just went like, this is such like an intense.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_09]: I think fairly universal phenomenon in some form or another that I had never seen really acknowledged, let alone captured and depicted.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's interesting to me that Twin Peaks was something that you watched in that sort of age.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And then over and over again and, and really did have like recurring dreams about it coming back.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember like when they announced the day they announced the reboot being just like, I was working, I was like 24 or 25 probably and working at this nonprofit.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember just like falling to my knees, you know?

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Was it full triumph or was there any part of you that was concerned?

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, it was full triumph.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You had full.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it had been Inland Empire came out when I was in college, you know, and I, and at that, and by around then I sort of like found David Lynch as an adult.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And just like, when I, when I rewatched Mahalan Jai for the first time as an adult, I like rewatched it four more times in like a weekend.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I watched Lost Highway.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I had this like incredible viewing of after my 30th birthday party, like 2 a.m.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I want to watch Lost Highway right now.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_07]: So you just tossed it on.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_07]: That is a good time to watch Lost Highway.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Turn out all the lights.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_09]: I think this is what I was trying to tee up.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Is that like, uh, in the fictional show with And I Saw the TV Glow, I feel like there are some clear kind of like, uh, influences, you know?

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_09]: And I, I feel like people have talked about like, oh, it has elements of like, are you afraid of the dark and the Goosebumps TV show?

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_09]: But maybe some of like the fan culture around something like Buffy and things like that.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_07]: And the font of Buffy.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Come on.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And the actors.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:17:09] Yeah.

[00:17:09] Yeah.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_09]: There's this, yes, this soup of stuff and stuff that has its own integrity, but stuff that like if you catch it at the right age and it activates something in your brain lives in a very large way.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_09]: But if you were to revisit as an adult, perhaps some of it plays differently, you know?

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but we all like long for it.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_02]: We long.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess this is the thesis of the movie, right?

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that like we long for the way it felt.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't actually long for it.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Which I think is like one of the very profound things you get in the film.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_09]: But and I'm someone who's obsessively regularly rewatching things that like stuck in my craw as a child to be like, what was it?

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_09]: What was the thing?

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Why did this like stick with me?

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's always an interesting thing to watch it through different prisms, especially if you're like resigned to not getting the same feeling out of it.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_09]: And you're almost watching it like as a archaeological expedition.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, to sort of dig through yourself.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_09]: But this is that rare kind of thing of like you can watch this at a young age.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_09]: It can impact you in that way.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_09]: And then you can revisit as an adult and be like, oh, my God, it's better than I thought it was.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_09]: I understand it more now.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm more invested in it.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And and it feels to me like one of if not the like fundamental sort of starting point for the return is like engaging with with this idea.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's it's it's not season three.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It's David Lynch in conversation with like the memory of his filmography and of Twin Peaks.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_09]: We were talking right before recording about like sequels that seem to hate the audience or at least seem to be in conflict with what people are expecting.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_09]: It will be.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Based on love of the first thing, the previous thing, whatever.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And this isn't quite that.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_09]: But there is that sense of like he's not doing the thing.

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Like even when you get like a stretch like within these episodes, the sort of like resolution of big.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I'll talk about it.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Where it's like this is the kind of thing.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_07]: A moment that feels a little more like, OK, love long line, long time fans of Twin Peaks.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_09]: You get like 10 minutes.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Then he cuts to a gas station flickering.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Like 15.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_09]: You get like 10 minutes that feel like probably what a lot of Twin Peaks fans wanted to see.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_07]: I've been waiting 30 years to know if Big Ed is going to figure it out with, you know, Peggy Lipton.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Norma?

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Norma.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_07]: And those moments in this show are few and far between.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Correct.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is fine.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_09]: And I feel like basically from the beginning of the show, he's teaching you this is not

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_09]: going to be that.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_09]: And yet I'd never watched it before.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Doing it for the podcast has been my first watch.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, wow.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_09]: These last five episodes, there's a run there.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_09]: I would say maybe the two 17, 16, 15, where it feels like the show is starting to deliver

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_07]: what certain fans would have hoped for.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_07]: It gives you a version of what you might want.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like this is coming together.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I am the FBI.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_07]: And imagine if it ended with episode 17.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Like that's...

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_07]: That would have been terrible.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Terrible.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Would have been bad, but would be...

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_07]: That's probably what some people thought was going to happen.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_07]: I think so.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_07]: I was watching it.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Someone punched Bob.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_07]: He's gone.

[00:20:16] Right.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_07]: And Cooper's like, you know, big thumbs up and everyone gets together.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's like, yay!

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_09]: It's fascinating because it does feel like he's doing it and he's doing it well.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: The fireman's plan worked!

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think what's fascinating, like watching these five episodes again, and just thinking

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: about the relationship to spaces, you know?

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: We're jumping between all of these different spaces and they almost exist in literal different

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: universes.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to travel through portals to get from Rancho Rosa to the sheriff's office.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, and maybe most overtly with Audrey there at the end, you know, to me it feels

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_02]: less like he's less interested in like, should I subvert your expectations or should I like

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: give you what you want?

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's more interested in like this.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_02]: We all have this shared memory of like 25 years ago watching this thing.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's explore like what that, like down to the last line of the series, right?

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, like, let's explore that phenomenon.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, and I...

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_09]: What year is it?

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_09]: I think he's, to your point...

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, the last line of the series is actually, ah!

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_09]: But apart from that.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_09]: I think to your point, he is not strategically gaming out like, what should I give them

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_09]: and what should I withhold?

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_09]: I think the show is just driven by what do I feel like doing, right?

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Probably.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_02]: At the same time, Dougie is hard to like throw in there without like kind of a little bit

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_02]: of a troll energy.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_09]: No, you're right.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_09]: You're right.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's like, I do get a sense of just like, he kind of wants to see Bigger's.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Get and Norma get together unencumbered.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_09]: He's putting that in there not out of some sense of like, I owe them this.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_09]: I owe it to the actors or to the audience.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_09]: There are other things that it just feels like he just doesn't really care about.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, when you hear these stories about certain cast members, Joan Chan in particular,

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_09]: who's like, I really wanted to come back and he just told me he couldn't find a way

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_09]: to fit me into the story.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm like, he fit anything into the story that he wanted to.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't want it.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Come on, David.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: There are doorknobs in almost every scene.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Just have me wave.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Just have her wave in one of them.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_09]: But I, you know, whether that was, you know, based on past relationship shit, whatever,

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_09]: it's like he's putting in what he wants to put in.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, isn't there some story about Audrey Horn, the actor, Sherilyn Finn, like asking

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_02]: for her shit to be rewritten and he rewrote it as like that whole plot line that ended

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_02]: up in there?

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't know that.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_09]: That makes a lot of sense because I will say that remains the element of this season

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_09]: of television that I am most perplexed by.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_09]: I love it.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_09]: And I was looking for some sort of explanation to as to how we got there.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_09]: And even the like Audrey dancing, you know, to her theme.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Felt like, OK, now we're getting somewhere where I'm going to understand why he's using

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_09]: her in this show in this way.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Here's this like weird emotional her like literally dancing with her own legacy as a

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_09]: character on the show.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And then she's just fucking gone.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_02]: That's her resolution.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, she she snaps into herself and then we see her in a pseudo white void with a with

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_02]: like the same.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And that shot is framed, I think, very similarly to a famous shot from Sunset Boulevard.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_07]: One of Lynch's most like enduring inspirations is Sunset Boulevard.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But also that guy.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I love Audrey's husband.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_02]: What's his name?

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, God, he drives me crazy.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Who has now passed away.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Clark Middleton?

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's right.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_08]: Charlie's the character.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Taking off my coat.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_07]: All right, Audrey.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I love the Audrey plot line so much.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm experiencing.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_07]: So my whole experience of the return is so rooted.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_07]: And just like week to week, you know, cracking my knuckles, sitting down like what's it going

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_07]: to be?

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_07]: And experiencing things like that where I've already been thrown for so many loops and

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_07]: then two thirds of the way.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_07]: And he's like, let's check in with Audrey.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And you're like, oh, sure.

[00:24:09] Sure.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's just like they're arguing about characters we never meet.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_07]: They say so many names.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_07]: We're like, am I supposed to know who that is?

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_07]: They spend like three.

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_07]: His cadence is so magnificent.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, you know, wherever he was found.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_09]: But also it feels like they spend three episodes maybe sustained, like frozen in time.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Where we keep coming back to them in the same conversation being like, I swear I'm going

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_09]: to walk out this door.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_09]: It's very Bakedian.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_09]: And you're like, other things like days are progressing outside of this.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_09]: There is plot in this show.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_07]: There is right.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_09]: There is actual movement.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_09]: We come back to them and they're stuck here being like, don't pick up that phone.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_07]: But yes, I mean, right.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_07]: The question, I think what you're saying is correct, that there was another Audrey plot

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_07]: initially intended and the Sherilyn Fenn objected.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_07]: But no one knows what the original plot was, right?

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't, I think that's never really been figured out.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_07]: But this makes sense as Lynch going like, well, okay, I'm going to make something else.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And like this contained, how contained it is makes sense.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_07]: It's sort of like, well, if I'm going to rewrite it, I'll give you this little sort of play.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_07]: That you do.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_09]: She does not interact.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_02]: No, she's in an institution.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_02]: The names that she is saying in this long extended sort of meaningless conversation about people that we don't actually know.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Those names are also used by a lot of the people at the roadhouse.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Like who we also don't know.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Where we'll check in with their drama.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think this kind of mirrors like the myriad like FBI agents who we meet throughout the series who like don't actually end it.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It's almost, it's like there's like the core of the show, which is like what we remember.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Nostalgia.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And then there's just these like doppelganger versions of it, like on the fringes.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_09]: The roadhouse stuff is particularly interesting to me.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Not that I was expecting some kind of traditional resolution.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_09]: But like all these little snippets of like Charlene Yee and Jane Levy and like Sky Ferreira and these like.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_09]: She said Jane Lynch.

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_09]: I wish Jane Lynch would be good.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Jane Lynch is a sassy like Twin Peaks High School would be fine.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_09]: But these like very upsetting sort of like fragments devoid of context of just like people in very odd situations that are never revisited.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_07]: I always just get this sense that like Twin Peaks is, is a very sad, fraught place now.

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_07]: And probably, and was then too.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_07]: But like now, you know, we, we only catch glimpses of it.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_07]: The sheriff's office, they're always discussing a lot of like tragic, terrible stuff.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a lot of drug running happening.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, Frank Truman seems real.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I love him to death.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I would vote him for president.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Although, I mean, maybe I don't want to know all of his views.

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_07]: But like, I love him.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_07]: But he seems very like weary and beaten down and kind of like, you know.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_09]: In a way that is, to some degree, like reflection of what has happened to a lot of small towns in America.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, yes.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I think that I think Lynch has like a lot of fondness for and has had to watch sort of like erode culturally over decades.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_09]: People are under a lot of stress these days.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Is that what?

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_07]: People are under a lot of stress, Bradley.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_07]: It's my favorite line in the series.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_07]: It's delivered so beautifully.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_07]: The fact that they are around for the finale, like it's just one of the many, many, many decisions that Lynch and Mark Frost obviously made.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Where I'm like, there's no reason for them to tag along.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_07]: But it's so great that they're there.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Griffin?

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, wait.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_09]: No, this is me.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just doing a solo ad read.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Listen, this time of year, people are saying, ho, ho, ho.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Merry Christmas.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Or ha, ha, ha.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Happy Hanukkah or happy holidays.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_09]: I guess it works for both.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_09]: But what I want to encourage people to say is mo, mo, mo.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Merry movies.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Because this is Blank Check with Griffin David.

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_09]: We love movies.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_09]: And we are so excited that our friends at Regal are continuing to support the show.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Because if you sign up for Regal Unlimited, which of course is the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits.

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_09]: That's one Glickid?

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_09]: One no Sonic Ferratu?

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_09]: One double feature you've paid for your visit.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_09]: You see any standard 2D movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_09]: And with Regal Unlimited, you won't just save money on tickets.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_09]: You'll also save on snacks.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Eating.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_09]: So you can go, mo, mo, mo.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Merry movies.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_09]: You're still saying the mo, mo, mo.

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Merry movies thing.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_09]: But you have snacks in your mouth.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_09]: The point is, members get 10% off of all non-alcoholic concession items.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_09]: So if you're planning to see two movies this month, Regal Unlimited just makes sense.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Here's what you do.

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_09]: You sign up now in the Regal app or at the link in the description and use code BLANKCHECK.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Now I know what you're saying.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh God, I've heard a lot of Regal ads before.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I get it.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I know what he's offering.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_09]: 10% off your three-month subscription.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Wrong.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Holiday Special.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_09]: 20% off.

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_09]: If you use code BLANKCHECK.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_09]: This is unprecedented.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_09]: 20% off.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Now, I'm trying to answer your questions before you ask them.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_09]: What if you already have a subscription?

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_09]: What if you don't live in an area with a lot of Regals?

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Here's the thing to think about.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_09]: You got anyone in your life who loves movies?

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_09]: You looking for a gift?

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Regal Unlimited subscription.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_09]: 20% off.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Code BLANKCHECK.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_09]: And I want to say this as well.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_09]: We've been doing a lot of work behind the scenes to evolve our strategy with advertising on this show.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_09]: To both, hopefully, make a more enjoyable listening experience for all of you.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And to keep everyone happy and paid at Blank Check Productions.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_09]: And a big part of that is us being really excited about partnerships like our friends at Regal that feel very on topic of what we do on this podcast.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_09]: And it feels like a great opportunity to encourage people to take up an offer to go see movies.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_09]: A thing I imagine a lot of our listeners really want to do.

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_09]: So if you're looking for a way to say thanks and show support for the podcast, this would be a really helpful thing to do.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you very much.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And one last time, mo mo mo.

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Merry movies.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_07]: So, okay, but Twin Peaks The Return is announced.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_07]: And then you watch it.

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_07]: How did you feel at the time?

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_07]: You were watching it week by week.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Jane.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I was on set.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I was producing a movie called Chained for Life.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: In...

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Wonderful film.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Aaron Schimberg.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Aaron's movie.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_02]: In...

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_02]: What is this...

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_02]: What is the capital of Pennsylvania?

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Harrisburg.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_02]: We were in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, where beers were $2.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And karaoke was abundant.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_02]: That I wouldn't have predicted.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And my friend Dan Carbone, who also shot We're All Going to the World's Fair and is a wonderful filmmaker.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_02]: He had made this movie called Hydra Smiling Faces.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_02]: We were both Twin Peaks heads.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_02]: This was a very important thing.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: We were staying at like a comfort inn off the highway.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And...

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Did they have showtime?

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_02]: They did not have showtime.

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And...

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds like an uncomfort.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_02]: But we would eat dinner every night at this...

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like literally calling local movie theaters, being like, will you do a screening for us?

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Of the first two episodes when they are...

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_02]: No one said yes.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's this Indian place that we hosted a lot of crew dinners at.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And I like talked to the woman who ran it.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_02]: We were like putting her kid through fucking college, you know?

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And she bought showtime so that we could watch it.

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_09]: And you were like, if we come here on Sunday nights, you'll let us control the TV.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But she...

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But like for whatever...

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe she was just lying to me.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_02]: The cable package like didn't kick in until the next month.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So that didn't work either.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Shit.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we like sat in a hotel room and we...

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_02]: This was like a while ago.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And so like cell phone data plans were not commonly unlimited.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we all had these like limited cell phone plans and we like literally...

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_02]: We like mobile hotspotted.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_07]: You like chained your various cell phone plans.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_02]: We all bled.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Like we drained our cell phone plans.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Like and somebody like hooked it up to the hotel TV somehow.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And this was how we watched it.

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And everyone was just like, eh.

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like...

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Immediately.

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I love the beginning of the show, but it is definitely not like anything you would have

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_07]: expected to happen.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the ending, I'll never forget the last two episodes I watched right near here

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_02]: at the draft house.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_02]: They did like a secret screening of it.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Forget who organized it, but I weaseled my way into it.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And like we literally like all sat in a theater at the draft house and they like simulcast

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_02]: those two episodes live as they air.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Back to back.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And there was still like waiter service.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Hell yeah.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was actually like the...

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember it looking kind of...

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like when you blow something up that isn't the best resolution to a screen

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_02]: like that.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_02]: It like looked a little off.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Janky.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And I just remember like when it ended, the waitress was like hanging out, waiting for

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_02]: everyone to leave and everyone was just kind of like sitting in their seats.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Needed to process.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_02]: She was like, you guys seem upset.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And that ending...

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that ending haunted me for months.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't...

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_07]: I think The Sopranos is the only other TV show where I had that experience, where the

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_07]: ending was both immediately shocking to me and then like months of rumination for me.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_07]: But this is very different, obviously.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Whereas The Sopranos, I had the reaction that literally everyone had, which is, is my TV

[00:33:39] broken?

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_07]: It's such a boring reaction.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_07]: But literally everyone had the same reaction.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Whereas this, I was rattled.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Like very, very rattled.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Truly rattled.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And not unhappy because I had no expectations of this show.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I wasn't watching it being like fucking Cooper had better marry Audrey or I have no idea what

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_07]: I would be wanting from the end of this show.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_07]: But the absolute ending freaks me out to this day.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think it's amazing.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think lots of things about it.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_07]: But the shots of the forest at night with Laura's just screaming over it.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_07]: That is the thing that freaked me out the most watching at home in my dark room with no

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_07]: one else because my wife was like, I have no...

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Every time she would check in with it, she would just be like, what the fuck is this?

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'd be like, well, it's Twin Peaks, but it's also very different.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And she'd be like, okay, I'm going.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, like, you know the show...

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_09]: They retitled it.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Technically can't be season three because they don't want the CBS executives.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_07]: You know that experience as a teenager where maybe your parents check in with something

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_07]: you really love at a moment that it's quite unwatchable and they're like, ugh.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_07]: And you're like, no, no, no, come back, come back.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to explain the X-Files to you in a way that makes sense.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Like that would be my wife would like check in and it would be the guy in the prison

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_07]: with the, you know, giant hole in his face going, grrrr.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I just feel like this cannot be considered watchable television.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm like, no, it's really, really good.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_09]: See, what's interesting to me as someone who had not watched any of Twin Peaks,

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_09]: but has so many friends who are so obsessive and spends...

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_09]: is way too online.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_09]: The amount of stuff I got through cultural osmosis before finally watching all of this show

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_09]: and the things where I was like, yeah, this I'd gotten.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_09]: And the amount of stuff that I felt like wasn't represented to me that was surprising.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think part of going into The Return was just knowing like, well, this whole thing's

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_09]: legacy is that like it upended all expectations and it sort of rewrites the rules of television.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_09]: So I...

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_09]: The only thing I know to expect is to not expect anything and to not go in with any assumptions.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm less rattled by how much the show is not delivering the obvious sort of Twin Peaks

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_09]: legacy season because I'm going in knowing that.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And then even still, I got kind of tricked in this final run of episodes of like, holy

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_09]: shit, like Cooper's doing fucking Avengers Endgame.

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Time travel.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_09]: He's going back and he's fixing it.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Cooper's getting the Infinity Stones.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Everyone's together.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_09]: He and Diane are in love.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, I was just like, oh my God, Lynch is doing it.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_09]: And I was like, part of me was suppressing this memory of just remembering everyone.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_09]: People at the time being like, what?

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Not only did he not answer most of the unresolved questions from the first two seasons in the

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_09]: movie, but he actually created new questions that he also hasn't answered.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm watching it and I'm like, he's actually going to fucking tie everything together.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe the unresolved stuff is that we never go back to fucking Sky Ferreira.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_09]: But like, I can live with that.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_09]: And then somewhere across episode 18, basically from the start, where I'm just like, oh, right.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_09]: He's...

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_09]: There's something else that will happen here.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Now I'm trying to think of the Avengers thing where he like stops, you know, Ray Wise from

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_07]: killing Jacques Renaud.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, he's like hopping through the whole show.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, he's being awkwardly CGI'd into like every single...

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, when it like cuts back to Jack Nance...

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Hands off Renaud!

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_09]: We need his evidence!

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_09]: When he starts reusing the original series footage in that way...

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_09]: ...I was just kind of like, I can't believe he's doing this.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_09]: This feels like the kind of thing...

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Totally.

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_09]: ...that he would avoid.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think that's a big part of that second to last episode.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Is like how artificial that kind of narrative resolution is.

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_07]: You're getting it.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Cooper's face is superimposed over it.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_07]: We are...

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_07]: This is a dream that we are having.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_07]: We'll get to that.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Freddie uses his green glove.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_07]: We're...

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, we have to talk about Freddie.

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to talk about Freddie for half an hour.

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Listeners, it might surprise you to hear that I am all in on Freddie.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Freddie.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_09]: That Freddie is so my kind of shit.

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Freddie was...

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Freddie was also a fan favorite in my home.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: What if the artful Dodger had a green glove that could punch so good?

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I've just made my little glove, ain't it?

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you're doing the voice.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_09]: That's what I'm saying!

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_09]: I was like, what does he sound like?

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm like, oh, it sounds like he's singing Consider Yourself.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_07]: The whole thing with Jake Wardle, that actor, who I don't really know, is that when he's

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_07]: in the show, you're like, oh, this is someone doing like the most exaggerated kind of Cockney

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_07]: East End accent, right?

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, this can't be real.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And you realize, you know, that's just what he sounds like.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_07]: It must be what David Lynch loved about him.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_09]: He has like 20-minute YouTube videos that are like all UK accents, where he shows off

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_09]: that he knows all the regional accents.

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Many dialects, yes.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_09]: And then I went to his website, and it has this endorsement.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_09]: I'll pull up so I can read it verbatim.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_09]: But David Lynch being like, I love these crazy voices he does.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_07]: That sounds like...

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_07]: That sounds like...

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Right, because there's a rugby player named Jake Wardle, which fucks with actor Jake Wardle's

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_09]: SEO.

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_09]: No.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_09]: But where's this...

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_07]: I bet that rugby player wishes he could punch anyone.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_09]: The David Lynch quote is, having seen his internet video of him doing many incredible accents,

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_09]: his talent and naturalness really impressed me.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Jake was perfect for Freddie.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_09]: You see a thousand people on the internet.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_09]: But I knew Jake could do this.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_09]: He's super smart, and he's like Harry Dean.

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_09]: He's just a natural.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, sure.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Highest praise imaginable.

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_07]: He's just like Harry Dean.

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_07]: He's just like Harry Dean.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_07]: He's the a thousand people on the internet.

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm like, is David Lynch watching?

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_09]: 100% of them.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Surfing the information superhighway.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Sean Baker's on TikTok looking for like hot new sex workers for his next movie, and David

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Lynch is on there searching like...

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Just hilarious cockney.

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_07]: One thousand impressions in one minute, guys.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Hopefully this is not a betrayal of trusted information.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_09]: But someone who knows someone who works with David Lynch told me recently, like, I was like,

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_09]: have you heard anything about his health and everything?

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_09]: And they're like, you know, he's like bummed that he, you know, he feels like he has to

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_09]: stay at home.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_09]: But he's like fairly happy, and he just watches body cam footage on YouTube all day.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And I was like, that's the least surprising thing I've ever heard.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_09]: And he was like, when people come over, he's like, you won't believe this video I saw.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_02]: We should all be so lucky.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, he can do whatever he wants, obviously.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Also, he should make a fucking body cam movie.

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's also like, I remember, I think part of the gravitas of Twin Peaks beyond the

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_02]: return, beyond like, oh, I have 25 years of sort of like subconscious emotional attachment

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_02]: to this as an idea.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Also like, oh, this is like probably the filmmaker of my life.

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And this maybe is the last thing he's ever going to do.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And he probably understood that while he was making it.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But then it's lovely to remember that like, after this, he made a Netflix short film where

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: he talks to a monkey for 20 minutes.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Where he like gives a monkey the business.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_09]: I actually think the monkey is giving him the business.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_09]: You're right.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_09]: They're kind of, you know what?

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_09]: They're kind of antagonizing each other.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_09]: They're going tet a tet.

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_07]: It's real.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_07]: And he's done like a, right?

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Hasn't he done a bunch of little short films on the internet that I've never watched?

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, about like bugs and bees and stuff.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Like I, you know.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: He did a bunch of weather reports.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously he does those.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_07]: And he did, didn't he do a music video?

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, some of the music videos we watched, I feel like were post return.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_07]: The bug stuff I, now I'm remembering, it's on YouTube.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_07]: You can watch it.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_07]: It's just like him standing by a tree where there's like a bug and he's like talking about

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_07]: what the bug is doing.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_08]: He just did that recent album with Christabel.

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's right.

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm going to take us through these episodes a little bit.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_07]: So part 14, if you guys can cast your memory back all the way there.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Is the, I had a Monica Bellucci dream episode.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh my God.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_07]: But is.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_07]: David.

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_09]: That was the quote I wanted to use.

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_09]: You just reminded me.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_09]: There you go.

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_09]: When I was watching that episode, it was longer ago.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_09]: So I was like, why can't I pull this?

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_09]: It wasn't a last episode thing.

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_09]: But I had another podcast about Monica Bellucci.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_09]: That is, that is the funniest line in the entirety of Twin Peaks.

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Mostly because it's delivered by him.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_09]: It becomes funnier when you cut to the dream and you're like, oh, he got Bellucci.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_07]: But also that the reaction from the other agents, Monica Bellucci.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_07]: That's the thing.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_07]: It feels like.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_07]: That Gordon is so horny and they're all so annoyed with Gordon for being horny, like as

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_07]: part of his crime process.

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_09]: But I'm like, that is somehow in a certain way, it feels like the most vulnerable thing

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_09]: David Lynch has put in any of his work.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_09]: The admission that it's like another dream about a books of me star.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Of European cinema.

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think also they had some like French money and needed to shoot something in Paris.

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Is that for real?

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_07]: I believe that.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's right.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Because that's actually shot in Paris.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, no, it's absolutely.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe he just wanted to go hang out with Monica Bellucci.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_02]: This is what I would do if I was in my 70s with Showtime money.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And he must have seen Monica Bellucci when she emerges as an actress, like, you know,

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_07]: like, and been like, I never got to make a movie with this person.

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_07]: This is like the most David Lynch-y actress who ever existed.

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_09]: That's the bigger thing to me.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's part of what's so interesting about his sort of public negotiations with Showtime

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_09]: and being like, maybe I won't make it.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe I'm not going to do it unless they give me enough money.

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Is even if he didn't know this would be his last major project, I think he knew this is

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_09]: the last time the industry is going to let me do something on this scale.

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, if not for health and aging, it's like I basically have the Twin Peaks chip I can

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_09]: play one time.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_09]: To get this level of creative freedom and this many hours.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_09]: That's basically all that's going on here, I think.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_09]: And and the Monica Bellucci.

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_09]: So it's so funny to me, his choice in a series where we have so many hyper famous people

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_09]: show up as like surprise new characters to introduce her as herself in a dream.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Because this is the episode, I guess, where is this the episode where Andy gets summoned

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_07]: to the fireman's house, right?

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, the other the zone, the other world.

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And discovers the woman in the woods.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_07]: The woman, Naido, the woman, the eyeless woman in the woods.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_07]: That's the main stuff that happens.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_07]: But I get what else.

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, this is also the episode that introduces Freddie.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Freddie's lore.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Freddie's backstory.

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Freddie's long monologue.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_07]: It's also about his magic glove.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Sarah Palmer right at the end of the episode.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_07]: It reveals that she has a face behind her face and kills someone at a bar.

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_07]: She de-chins a man.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_07]: That scene rocks so fucking hard.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I think this whole episode is incredible.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_09]: This is like top to bottom.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Exceptional shit.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_09]: That's my very astute criticism.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_09]: That it's exceptional.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_09]: My intellectual analysis is this top to bottom really good shit.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_07]: That's kind of the last major thing that Sarah Palmer does, right?

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking, because when I was watching these episodes through, I was like, oh,

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_02]: is this the last time we see this person?

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But we see her smashing the picture and sort of like crawling around her screen.

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_09]: But another thing that fucking tricked me is I'm just like, oh my God, he's going to

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_09]: bring like new Laura Palmer to like a point of resolution with her mother.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_09]: And then the ultimate rug pull of just like, I'm never giving you that.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Sort of.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_07]: What's your take on Sarah Palmer in Twin Peaks The Return?

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_07]: So...

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Open question, but I was asking Jamie.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_09]: It's very kind of you.

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you, David.

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember this like nerd message board conversation while it was airing after episode eight, right?

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Where it's like, is that girl Sarah Palmer?

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And even if it's not, I feel like it's an association that is invited timeline wise, right?

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Mark Frost has sort of nodded to like, yeah, that's what we're going for.

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And just this, this like, if this, if the show is this like post nuclear origin story of like

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_02]: American innocence or something like that bug crawling into her mouth is, um, is like

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_02]: equivalent to the rot of her, you know, life that she builds herself and her ceiling fan,

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_02]: et cetera.

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and so like the, the like out of nowhere, never really extrapolated on relatively late

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_02]: in the game reveal that she's like a monster now.

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_07]: As evil superpower.

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And the thing we see in her face beyond being like incredible David Lynch CGI, I love his CGI.

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, because it looks terrible.

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Um.

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_07]: But then as we talked about episode eight, you're like, this is some of the best CGI I've ever seen.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Sometimes immaculate, often terrible.

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, but this look is unbeatably.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah.

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Both.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think he knows it's both, you know?

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, totally.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Totally.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_09]: It's just, it's what's fascinating about episode eight and our guests on that kind of

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_09]: outlift throughout the theory that it's like he's, he's giving you purposefully janky.

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, totally.

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Incredibly artificial, unsettling kind of like this feels like a technical error.

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Even the cell phone screen.

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_09]: For most of it in a way that makes the stuff in episode eight feel more real.

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_09]: When your mind, you don't question its reality because you're like, well, I know what CGI

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_09]: looks like in this show.

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I think like emotionally, just like Sarah Palmer as like demon, it like tracks emotionally,

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_02]: right?

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's like an interesting, interesting space to leave that character in.

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Especially, right, if you're going to do a thing that's like, okay, what's everyone doing

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_07]: almost 30 years later?

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Sarah Palmer's still alive?

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, she would be this like festering demon.

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember being like very excited to see what like Ray Wise was going to do in Twin Peaks

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_02]: The Return before it aired, you know, because Leland is just like such a figure.

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's like not really in there.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Nope.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we see him in the room.

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_09]: He's got 10 incredible seconds.

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Yep.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, he's got a great face.

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I'd love to see his face always.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's sort of like, when we do see him, you know, he's like, fine, Laura.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like this, like, he's like the tragic version of him.

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas like Sarah Palmer as this like person who like lived through it and is still there

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_02]: freaking out in the supermarket is like got more of the Bob style rot inside of her now.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_09]: The rot is the big thing.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I feel like as much as Twin Peaks as a project at large is about anything, it

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_09]: feels to me like it is about the way those things fester, right?

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_09]: The way darkness and pain lives inside of people and how it gets there and what it does to

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_09]: us psychologically and physically and all of that, whether it is the kind of darkness

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_09]: that causes you to inflict pain onto other people or is the byproduct of pain inflicted

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_09]: onto you.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_09]: And there is this I feel like how would I put this?

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Situations like the Palmer family, right?

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_09]: In real life, when these stories blow up in the news and there are these horrible tragedies,

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_09]: you know, these terrors happening within the home.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Unspoken abuse.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Totally.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_07]: In the home, right.

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_09]: I feel like so often the line of question goes straight to like what and the wife was

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_09]: just there.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_09]: She was in the house.

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_09]: This was going on for years.

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_09]: How did she not notice this was happening under her nose?

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_09]: How did she not stop it?

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_09]: But there's sort of this there almost becomes I don't want to say a shifting of blame, but

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_09]: this like extension of culpability to like how is this possible?

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_09]: This the mother failed her, you know, like the father was the one inflicting the damage,

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_09]: but the mother is the one who in a certain way is harder to get your head around.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_09]: And I don't think that Sarah Palmer is like unsympathetically portrayed in the original

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_09]: series.

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_09]: But in the plottiness of the original series, it's a lot easier to just be like.

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_09]: So this is a woman who just like gets sort of hopped out of her mind and then imagines

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_09]: a horse and then stuff happens.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_09]: She's oblivious to it.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_09]: And there's something about settling in the reality of, as you said, like, who would this

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_09]: woman be 30 years later?

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_09]: She would be a fucking mess.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Like once things came to the surface and she was no longer able to deny what had happened

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_09]: and just had to live with that for decades and outlive the rest of her family.

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_09]: She would just be like not a functional person in one way or another.

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But there is also.

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I feel like even between Twin Peaks and and Fire Walk with me, there is like a

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_02]: reassessment of like.

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_02]: The maybe not or maybe not like a rewriting, but like there's it feels like Lynch is pulling

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_02]: back some of the like genre metaphor, you know, I think we see.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't we kind of like see her aware of it in Fire Walk with me?

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Like Leland is like is basically drugging her and she's like willingly taking the drugs.

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's like an implication that she knows what's going on in the home.

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_09]: I think he's sort of trying to reckon with both sides of it.

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Realistically.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And then there is the expressionist side of it of her turning into a monster who can

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_09]: rip people's chins off.

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_09]: But it is like there is a degree of complicity that eats at her and there's a degree of like

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_09]: genuine victimization that eats at her.

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_09]: And both of these things have created someone who is just like incapable of existing with

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_09]: other people or existing with like a framed photo in her house.

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Like it is all just this sort of like negative energy festering inside of her that's looking

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_09]: for any release.

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_07]: What do you make of her smashing up the picture in the later episode in part 17?

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Because that's when we're that's when has Laura been sort of plucked out at that point

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_07]: and we're sort of.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Trying to reckon with that.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't.

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I never quite.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_09]: I haven't really ever figured that out.

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I.

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Not that I need to.

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Look, I've lived with this for like fucking 12 hours.

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_09]: But my read on it in the moment is it's like her attacking the representation of like her

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_09]: life collapsing.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Laura.

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Laura's prom picture.

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Like not Laura as a person, but like Laura's prom picture, which is this image that has

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_09]: been like constantly repeated throughout the show as the sort of like tragic beauty.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_09]: It is a perfect snapshot of that moment.

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But the I guess like and I haven't really thought about this either, but like smashing

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_02]: up that picture right before like history is about to get rewritten to like remove her

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_02]: from that home.

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_02]: With the I think there is like an implication, right?

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Because when she takes off her mask, the thing we see inside of her head is the monster

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_02]: from the from that like machine in New York City at the beginning of the series that

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_02]: comes through.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_02]: This sort of.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is like a Judy adjacent thing.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Jowdy.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Judy thing.

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like the again, the jokey like sort of Avengers the idea of like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_07]: We had Bob meet Judy.

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Judy makes Bob look like shit.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Bob came out of Judy.

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Judy barfed Bob one time when there was a nuclear explosion.

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_07]: But Judy's been around since fucking ancient.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like it's like X-Men Apocalypse where they're like, oh, Magneto.

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_07]: He's oh, he's like a radical mutant.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, what about the mutant from the pyramid?

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Did you ever consider there was a mutant there?

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_07]: What would he be like?

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Five, six blue.

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_07]: He touched TVs a lot.

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_04]: No, I think you're right.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_07]: It's some version of that demon.

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_09]: There's a feeling of wanting to like she wants to remove it from the timeline.

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, like that's part of the guilt of like I brought someone into the world and

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_09]: then allowed pain to be inflicted upon her.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_09]: But just to go back, like even the episode eight being this, we sort of assume Sarah Palmer

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_09]: backstory.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_07]: The last part of episode eight.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_09]: That is represented in this very odd way, but does start to like fill in this notion that

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_09]: it's not like Sarah Palmer was this like oblivious woman who married a monster and then

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_09]: her life went to hell.

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_09]: And all this horrible thing, you know, this this damage stemmed out of it.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_09]: There's shit that's been going on to Sarah Palmer since she was a small child, whether

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_09]: you literally interpret it as like a bug in her mouth.

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Weird people in the sky decided that she would be the vessel for pure good to fight pure evil

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_09]: or whatever.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_09]: There is this degree of like now cosmic level of you are being used for by people for other

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_09]: ends and to other means.

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_07]: It's also funny that the right, the, you know, Avengers of Twin Peaks, The Return is the fireman

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_07]: older, right?

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Briggs is floating head.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh huh.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Just sort of.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Bob in the bubble.

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Michael J. Anderson replaced by a tree.

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_07]: A tree with a brain on it.

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_07]: David Bowie as a tea kettle.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_07]: A talking tea kettle.

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_07]: That is David Bowie.

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Like there's a pivotal scene in one of these episodes that's like Jeffrey's being like,

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_07]: of course, I've always been allied with you.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_07]: I am a tea kettle.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Go to this electrocution zone.

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm Mark.

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_09]: It's a David Bowie impressionist.

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, do you imagine if this show ended Avengers Endgame style with the end credit curtain call

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_09]: of everybody to try and put music and the signatures over the tea kettle?

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, Freddie, the other thing I want to discuss from episode 14, do you guys have

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Freddie thoughts?

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I remember watching the scene in relative bafflement at the time.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And James is a character that doesn't have much to do in the return.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, we're happy he's there.

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_07]: It's sort of a sweet thing.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_09]: I like James too.

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_09]: He looks great.

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Am I wrong in thinking that this is the look, we've obviously watched the show fairly spread

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_09]: out due to record scheduling and such.

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, am I wrong in thinking that this is the first scene where you identify that he's a

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_09]: security guard?

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_09]: I think so.

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I feel like all the other times we've seen him.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_09]: He's at the roadhouse.

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_09]: But he's usually wearing like a leather jacket.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_09]: He's performing.

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_09]: He's coming in in street clothes.

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Looking sexy.

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that he's looking so sexy.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, okay.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_07]: So my take is Jane is disagreeing with my take that, uh, short hair.

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Bobby's looking sexy.

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Bobby looks incredible.

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_07]: My favorite character of the.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Sort of, you know, my, my favorite performance of the returning.

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, apart from Kamala Cloughlin's, you know, unbelievable multi-character work, I

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_07]: guess.

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_07]: But like, yes, Bobby's super sexy.

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't think so?

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't think James is working?

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like there's a line early on, right?

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Where isn't somebody like James had a motorcycle?

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Accident.

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_02]: He hasn't been quite right since then.

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Poor James.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_09]: We've talked about this in other episodes, but do you know, Jane, that like he was part

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_09]: of a huge lawsuit against an acne medication that he said fucked up his face.

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_09]: And lost him work.

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_09]: And spent years and like David Lynch like testified on his behalf and people.

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_09]: There is this degree.

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_09]: It's a lot less tragically kind of like sexy than a motorcycle accident than the James

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Dean kind of thing.

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_09]: But there was this feeling of like this guy's.

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Accutane.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_07]: He sued Accutane.

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like he, like, like James in the original series, right, is like such a, such

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_02]: a James Dean.

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Figure.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And here he's more like a townie.

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Whereas Bobby's arc is more surprising, I guess.

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Like that this is where Bobby ended up, but then just really tracks.

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_07]: And he, he is very, he looks great with it.

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_07]: He, Johnny Knoxville, you know, he went silver and it worked perfectly.

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:57:22] 100%.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Ah, okay.

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Great.

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_07]: The door dwells in ring.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_07]: What's up?

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_09]: That's a weird sigh of relief.

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_09]: See, I was sighing, but more in wistful memories.

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Thinking back to all my favorite moments of 2024.

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_09]: You were a year of great moments.

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Let's talk about some of them.

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_09]: The minions returned.

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, thank God.

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank God the minions returned.

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_09]: But Gru rose.

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Gru rose.

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Venom had his last dance.

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_09]: As far as we know.

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Wasn't Gru rising two minions movies ago?

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Is that right?

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_09]: I think so.

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_09]: I think this was just straight up Despicable Me 4.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, you're right.

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_09]: That's right.

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_09]: I take it back.

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_09]: This is embarrassing.

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Look, these are our fondest memories of 2024.

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_09]: We can't even keep them straight.

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, that's probably because I'm looking ahead to my plans in 2025.

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_07]: This is the reason why.

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Look, maybe one of our listeners is thinking about getting engaged.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_09]: You're trying to make a memory that will stay put.

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_09]: People say put a ring on it, right?

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_09]: If you put a ring on it, you're not going to forget it.

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_09]: You're not going to forget which minions movie you saw if you put a ring on it.

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_07]: If you're going to take that momentous step.

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_07]: I recommend sourcing your engagement ring from BlueNile.com.

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, interesting.

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_07]: The original online jeweler since 1999.

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Pre-Y2K.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_07]: They were there down the hatches.

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Rachel Zegler wasn't there.

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_07]: She wasn't there.

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I think she truly was born after that.

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I think she was just born then.

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_09]: But 1999, they're holding on for dear life going, I hope this doesn't shut down at midnight.

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And they survived.

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_07]: On BlueNile, you can create a bigger and more brilliant piece than you can imagine.

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[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_07]: means that in most cases, they can meet or beat a competitor's price on a comparable

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_07]: diamond and you can feel great about your purchase.

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_07]: That's helpful.

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, they got the highest ethical standards and so you can feel great about

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_07]: that too.

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And a 100% satisfaction guarantee with guaranteed free shipping and returns, then guaranteed

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[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_07]: For life?

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[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's all insured.

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_07]: It arrives in packaging.

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_07]: It won't give away what's inside.

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_07]: So it won't get swiped.

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank goodness.

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_07]: In most cases, it can even be delivered overnight just in case you want to make one more unforgettable

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_07]: memory in 2024.

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_07]: One of those last second spur of the moment engagements.

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_08]: And as someone who got engaged in 2024.

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, look at that.

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_08]: That's the memory we were fishing for.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Love.

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's a great endorsement.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, right now you can go to BlueNile.com and use code blank check for $50 off your purchase

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_07]: of $500 or more.

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[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_07]: BlueNile.com.

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Minions, the Rise of Gru is 2022.

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_09]: No, you're right.

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry.

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_09]: David.

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I got great news.

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_09]: What's up?

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's kind of, it's kind of, look, sometimes you take great news for granted.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Like great news.

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_09]: David, you're alive.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Great news.

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Love to hear it.

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_09]: There's oxygen in your lungs.

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_09]: The sun is in the sky.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_09]: And this episode is brought to you by MUBI.

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Ah, curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe.

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's important to step back and really appreciate how lucky we are.

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_09]: To have our episode sponsored by MUBI.

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_09]: We love MUBI.

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_07]: We love them.

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a great service.

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Each and every film is hand selected on there.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_07]: You can stream the best of cinema anytime, anywhere.

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_09]: From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, there's always something new to discover.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_09]: And sometimes you can walk out of your house.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Step, step, step, step, step, step.

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Into a movie theater.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Freak.

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Sit.

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_09]: That's a projector sound.

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Or if it's a digital projector.

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_07]: At this movie theater, the popcorn is sold by like a guy from like a baseball.

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Like a baseball popcorn.

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Popcorn.

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Guys are watching a movie.

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_07]: He's like, this is my thing.

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Pay nuts.

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_09]: People come to this theater for me to do baseball popcorn sales, but in a movie theater.

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_09]: And all of that experience is brought to you by MUBI.

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's not.

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_09]: But what is brought to you by MUBI is sometimes films that they put up on the big screen.

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Just that we like.

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_09]: We like that MUBI is holistically involved in movie culture.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, they've been putting out a lot of interesting movies in recent times.

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Every year they've been stepping up their game.

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_07]: It's really exciting.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Their new film, which is in theaters, U.S. theaters on November 8th, is Bird, the new

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_07]: film from Andrea Arnold.

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Now they phrase it here as the long-awaited return to fiction filmmaking.

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_09]: It's been eight years.

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_09]: And the last film she made, scripted feature-length film she made, was your favorite film that

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_09]: year?

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_07]: 2016, Blanky, David Sims winner, American Honey, best picture for me.

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Great movie.

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_07]: She also made Fish Tank, which I feel like a lot of people have seen.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_07]: She made Red Road.

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_07]: She made Wuthering Heights.

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And her new movie is Bird.

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a tender and compelling and beautifully surprising coming-of-age fable about life

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_07]: in the fringes of contemporary society.

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Kind of her strong suit.

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_07]: That's absolutely right.

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_07]: She finds very interesting ways to explore right communities you might not see on film as

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_07]: often.

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_09]: You know what's another thing I love about MUBI?

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_09]: They, in their copy, for the first time have answered for me definitively how to pronounce

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_09]: the name of the star.

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_09]: This film with its buzzy cast features Barry Keown.

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_07]: That's right.

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Don't say the G.

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_07]: You might know him from Saltburn or, I mean, Banshees of Insurance.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, sure.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_07]: But yes.

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And then you've got arthouse favorite, Franz Rogowski.

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Franz Rogowski from Passages and Transit.

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Undine.

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Great movie.

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_07]: One of my favorite movies of the last couple of years.

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And then plus a revelatory central performance from a newcomer, Nakaya Adams.

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Another thing Andrew Arnold has quite attractive.

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Latest in a series of notable debut performances from Arnold.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_07]: You got a canon of formidable female characters vying for freedom from oppressive systems.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, in Red Road, of course, you had Kate Dickey.

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, no.

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry.

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, yeah.

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Red Road was Kate Dickey.

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_07]: That wasn't a discovery.

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_07]: No, that was it.

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_07]: But in Fish Tank, you had Katie Jarvis.

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And in American Honey, you had Sasha Lin.

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And she's still, you know, she's still crushing it.

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Seeing Sasha Lin all over the place.

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Look, New York Times called it a beautifully shot, delicately moving coming of age story.

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Little White Lies said it's a magical, energetic marvel from one of the UK's finest filmmakers.

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_09]: And David wouldn't know anything about that.

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_07]: But she's the best.

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_07]: And the movie is really, really worth seeing.

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's really great to have a new Andrew Arnold movie out there.

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's in theaters on November 8th.

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Here's what you can do.

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_09]: You can go to Mubi.com slash bird for showtimes and tickets.

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_09]: See if it's playing anywhere near you.

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_09]: And additionally, you want to stream some great films at home.

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_09]: You can try Mubi free for 30 days at Mubi.com slash blank check.

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_09]: That's M-U-B-I dot com slash blank check.

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_09]: For a month of great cinema for free.

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And Bird will eventually end up there.

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Bird!

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Bird!

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, Freddy.

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Freddy, yeah, he's a boy from the east end of London who had an epiphany in an alley

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_07]: and met the fireman, aka the giant.

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_07]: And the fireman told him to put on a big glove and he's never been able to take it off.

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_07]: He's got to get a 20 bucks.

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_07]: If anyone tries, they essentially die because he's super strong.

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Any questions?

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_09]: No, perfect.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_09]: No notes.

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_09]: I love it.

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_09]: I agree.

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_09]: It feels like a kind of wild baffling thing to devote this much time to this late.

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_09]: But I was fully locked in.

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_07]: It was a concept that I believe Lynch had had for Jack Nance at some point.

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Like he's had the concept of the magic arm.

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_07]: It feels like a real like Ronnie Rocket kind of thing.

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_06]: What do you say about Freddy?

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Just tension, right?

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But like it's like the Mark Frost, David Lynch eternal tension that is playing out in funny

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_02]: ways.

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And the return where I just always imagine Mark Frost being like, right.

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And like the green glove, maybe like the fireman summoned it and it's going to like knock Bob

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: out at the right moment.

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_02]: David Lynch is like, sure, sure, sure.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, can we get this?

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, this Irish guy.

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_07]: There's an interview with Mark Frost where they ask him about like some people were confused

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_07]: that Bob is defeated by a random character.

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_07]: We basically meet for the first time by punching.

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_07]: And Mark Frost is like, yeah, it's called a deus ex machina.

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Like it's clearly they were just like, we wanted to resolve that, but we wanted to resolve

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_07]: it in this this particular way.

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_07]: It's fun.

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_09]: I just very fun.

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_09]: I love introducing a character this late and having a character basically announced.

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_09]: I have been sent here to resolve this show.

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I've never really met any of you and have no relationship with any of you.

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I know James a little bit.

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_09]: If he was set up in episode two, maybe I would hate it because I'd just be like, oh,

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_09]: God, he's going to end up punching the guy.

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_09]: The fact that he's introduced so late.

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Makes it work for me.

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: The other thing that I noticed for the first time this watch through is that they're working

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: at the Great Northern.

[01:06:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:06:08] [SPEAKER_02]: They're both security guards.

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And James goes down at the end of that whole sequence to like check the boiler room, which

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_02]: is the same space that Hooper goes to to like to cross over.

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Like to fight Windham Earl or whoever.

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_02]: To in episode 17.

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, right.

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like where he and it's like where he says goodbye to David Lynch.

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess.

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And like even when James goes down there, it like the show slows down a little bit to

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_02]: like give the space some power.

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_07]: I did not track that.

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I should.

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I'm going to have to rewatch Twin Peaks of the Return again.

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm taking us to episode 15.

[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Which begins with the moment you already referenced.

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Nadine toting the shovel.

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, reprogrammed by podcasting.

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Happy as a clown.

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Just walking up to Ed and being like, I have been a huge pain in your ass and you really

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_07]: should, you know, marry Norma.

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_07]: We should have resolved this decades ago.

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_07]: It would be funny if she was a, she's a mega babe.

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Like Norma's great.

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Like I'm a, you know, I'm a lot.

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_04]: She's basically saying that.

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_07]: She is basically saying that.

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And Ed, you know, goes over to the Double R Diner and, you know, it's a 10, 15 minute

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_07]: chunk.

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_07]: 10 minute chunk.

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Basically.

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Basically.

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Like it's the only, is it the only like classic Twin Peaks story that really gets resolved?

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_07]: It kind of feels like it.

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Are there any others?

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_07]: A log lady, arguably.

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, we see like codas for characters like that.

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_09]: But that feels like the only pure emotional resolution.

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Like a dangling thread that we never got to pick up.

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_09]: This is one of the things I was surprised by watching the show for the first time watching

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_09]: the first season in particular is how much of it is kind of just traditional primetime

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_09]: soap opera.

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_09]: That it is truly caught up in like purely emotional, interpersonal, dramatic, interweaving plot lines.

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_09]: And that's the shit he's not largely concerned with.

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Returning to, revisiting, resolving, even commenting upon in this.

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_09]: We dip in with new soapy storylines.

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Totally.

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Like Caleb Landry Jones or Amanda Safer.

[01:08:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but those are things that also don't resolve within.

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_07]: They do not.

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_09]: No, no.

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_09]: I think you're right that that's the only classical, original Twin Peaks thing that gets

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_09]: that kind of like emotional bow tying.

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_07]: It's wonderful.

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_07]: It's wonderful and very satisfying and beautifully acted.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_07]: And that song.

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I love, you know, Ever McGill so much.

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_09]: And he was one of the many original Twin Peaks cast members who had basically retired.

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_09]: He wasn't really working anymore.

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_09]: I think the story is that he hadn't worked in a long time.

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_09]: No one even knew how to reach him.

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_09]: He didn't have representation.

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Lynch sort of like sent out like the shot up the flare gun to try to find him.

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Someone passed along a number.

[01:09:07] [SPEAKER_09]: He called a landline.

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Ever McGill picked up.

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And he was like, I can't believe I found you.

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And he was like, this was my like in-laws parents house that we never sold.

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_09]: And I've never disconnected the phone line.

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_09]: But I only come here to check it like once every other month.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_09]: And I happened to be here when you called.

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_09]: And then was like, and of course, by the way, I'll come back for Twin Peaks.

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_09]: But that feels like this weird sense of some warmth and fondness for Everett McGill as a guy.

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Translating to like, you know what?

[01:09:40] [SPEAKER_09]: I want to see him get his happy ending.

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Versus like, Joan Chen doesn't need to be here.

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_09]: And Sherilyn Fenn can yell at her husband.

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Or right.

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Or Everett can have a plot line that's just like him yelling in a convenience store one time.

[01:09:52] [SPEAKER_07]: And they're like, anyway, so or I mean, I love Ben Horn in The Return.

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_07]: But Ben Horn's plot line being like him sitting sadly behind a desk being like, I feel like I hear a noise.

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_07]: And Ashley Judd's like, yeah, kind of.

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_07]: He's like, you know, he's not saying out loud.

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_07]: But I feel like he's just sitting there being like, am I shitty?

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Was I like an evil villain?

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_07]: And now I just stuck here?

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, I don't know.

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, so that's nice.

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Do we so do we think that Nadine was healed by the podcast by Mr.

[01:10:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:10:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Seems like it.

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Look, we all know the podcasts are unilaterally a positive force.

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_07]: She's like dug her shit out.

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Like the shovel worked.

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_09]: She dug her shit out.

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_09]: But also it's like, you know, she was engaging in like the marketplace of ideas.

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_09]: She was activated.

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Podcasts have never led to the wrong people being elected president.

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_09]: They're good.

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_02]: She was having a parasocial relationship.

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_09]: And those are positive.

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_10]: And they always lead to real relationships.

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Yep.

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_07]: The, in episode 15 as well.

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_07]: After this, we have Cooper, uh, Mr. C, you know, evil Cooper, um, going to the convenience

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_07]: store.

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And as you say, like following this lovely spotlight with, uh, the more deep surrealism

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_07]: of like, I'm going to meet the jumping man and talk to a tea kettle that is David Bowie's

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_07]: character.

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, that sets up the sort of end of Richard Horne, right?

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, does that happen in this episode or the next?

[01:11:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe.

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: He meets him at the, in this one.

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And then Richard Horne very quickly, uh, gets axed in the next one.

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is another, I, I, nothing about Twin Peaks, The Return is, is bad.

[01:11:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Everything is good.

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm glad everything happened.

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_07]: But it is interesting that we're subjected to Richard Horne, a very, very dis, tough character

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_07]: to look at and like, inter, interact with the, uh, behavior of.

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_09]: A puss level pocks upon the world.

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And you're like, what is this?

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, what's going on?

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Who is this?

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And then you realize like, okay, this is like Mr. C basically like raped Audrey Horne, like

[01:11:59] [SPEAKER_07]: when she was comatose, right?

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_07]: After the, the bomb went off at the end of Twin Peaks season two.

[01:12:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:12:05] [SPEAKER_07]: And created this monster.

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, this is like one of the darkest things.

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_07]: It's awful.

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_07]: And then it's like, well, what's, well, then why is he in the show?

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Apart from to like run kids over and be evil.

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, he's just another, um, Dougie.

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_07]: He's another thing the doppelganger can use to avoid death.

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Like a decoy.

[01:12:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:12:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Another sort of like, and that's all he does.

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And then he dies.

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_07]: It's sort of satisfying when Richard Horne is exploded.

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:12:33] [SPEAKER_07]: But I don't know.

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, is there anything about Richard Horne, Horne I'm not grasping or like, what do you

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_07]: think Lynch wanted to achieve with that character?

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Apart from freaking me out.

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: It almost seems like, um, it's been 12 years since I've watched The Wire.

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But remember when there was like, uh, what was his name?

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: The bad guy towards the end of The Wire?

[01:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, Marlo Stanfield.

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:12:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Where it's basically like, what if there was Avon Barksdale with like no charisma?

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_07]: It was just terrifying.

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I think, I think maybe, you know, like especially when Richard Horne first appears, he's sort

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_02]: of like his sociopathy is, is like very reminiscent of a classic like Lynch sociopathy.

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But he's just like, yeah, it's just like charmless.

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Completely uncharismatic with this terrifying face.

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I mean, I love him.

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_09]: That almost feels like.

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_09]: It, it almost feels like a no country for old men kind of like in the same way that

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_09]: he's commenting on what would happen to a town like Twin Peaks over time.

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_09]: That even if in the nineties, it felt a little Mayberry, the like small town he was presenting

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_09]: and out of time.

[01:13:37] [SPEAKER_09]: These are the exact kind of towns that have, that have, uh, come upon a hard times, right?

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_09]: And are under a lot of stress.

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_09]: And like the version of evil that exists now isn't even charismatic.

[01:13:49] [SPEAKER_09]: It's like Chad.

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_09]: That this is like a, uh, an evil predator in a way, you know, like, and it's not even

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_09]: disguised in anything.

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Like it's the evil is completely naked in Richard where it's like, there's lots of evil in Twin

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Peaks, lots of characters that are suffused.

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And he doesn't feel supernatural.

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_07]: No, he's just yelling cunt at people and running over children.

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Like he's neither Bob nor Leland Palmer.

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Like there are people who feel like they exist purely as supernatural forces.

[01:14:20] [SPEAKER_09]: And there are people who have like deep darkness within them and are like putting on a show

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_09]: on top of it.

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_09]: And here's just this awful kid who just walks through the world, runs through the world,

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_09]: drives through the world, doing horrible things and continuing basically unabetted until

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_09]: like a greater evil explodes him.

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say something that I hesitate to say out loud because it is a criticism of

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Twin Peaks, the return.

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead.

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead.

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't really, I don't really like evil Cooper.

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Interesting.

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, well, that's a major criticism, I would say.

[01:14:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I know.

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Like you don't like his vibe?

[01:14:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Like.

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it really lands.

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I like, I like a lot of his scenes.

[01:15:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I especially like him in the prison when they come to interview him and his voice is weird.

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you like the arm wrestling fight with the goon cracker?

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I love the arm wrestling.

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_07]: That's pretty fun.

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But I remember like that scene in the hotel room early on, right?

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Where he shoots the lady who's.

[01:15:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Brutalizing that woman, you know, and it's like classic Lynch stuff and.

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, he kind of resolves, like he just gets shot and then that's, that's it for,

[01:15:26] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, Bob comes out of his belly and it's like.

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Gets punched.

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And I know, I imagine that it's like David Lynch giving Kyle MacLachlan like a very clear

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_02]: direction to like be a little bit like vacant in the performance, right?

[01:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the performance is very like, it's like both pastiche, but also kind of just like

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_02]: blank.

[01:15:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Dougie and Mr. C are both kind of like hollow performances in an interesting way.

[01:15:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:15:52] [SPEAKER_07]: And obviously Dougie is very funny and like the way the world works around Dougie is very

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_07]: funny.

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_07]: The most interesting he is as Mr. C is the prison definitely is just spooky.

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_07]: But in the episode 17, I think when he shows up to the sheriff's office and is kind of mimicking

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_07]: being normal.

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, yeah, no, it's in Truman, you know, it's interesting.

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a little interesting to see, right, to see him make a little bit of effort to

[01:16:16] [SPEAKER_07]: pretend not to be a scary psychopath.

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But I just think like Cooper in the mirror and maybe I'm like expecting something, which

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_02]: is a bad thing to do with this.

[01:16:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:16:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But Cooper in the mirror at the end of season two, Bob laughing.

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_02]: There's like a psychosis that's like entered the equation that is just sort of like not

[01:16:37] [SPEAKER_02]: there with Mr. C.

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And I like just bad.

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Mr. C is just bad, but he's like not even bad in a way that like he's bad in this like

[01:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: more mythical way than Richard Horn is bad, but not in a more like interesting way.

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:16:55] [SPEAKER_09]: So this leads to a question for me.

[01:16:57] [SPEAKER_09]: There's the scene.

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_09]: I think it comes in the following episode.

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.

[01:17:01] [SPEAKER_09]: 15.

[01:17:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe episode 16 where Diane gives the whole explanation of being sexually assaulted by

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Mr. C.

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, that's in episode 16.

[01:17:12] [SPEAKER_07]: But then that turns out to be a tulpa?

[01:17:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, that is.

[01:17:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[01:17:16] [SPEAKER_09]: The Diane we've dealt with for the whole show is a tulpa.

[01:17:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:17:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Is a creation.

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_09]: But she is telling the story because so much of our time with this Diane is like, what was

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_09]: the falling out between her and Cooper?

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Why is she so hostile to Cooper?

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_09]: And there is a part of me as a viewer that is still as much as I'm trying to disabuse myself

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_09]: of this processing some of these things like traditional television storytelling and going

[01:17:40] [SPEAKER_09]: like, what's the backstory reveal going to be?

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_09]: And you're ready for it to be some kind of like TV drama betrayal and not Laura Dern giving

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_09]: a very sobering five minute monologue recounting a sexual assault by a beloved character.

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_09]: I know it's Mr. C and it's not Dale Cooper, but even just in her playing that scene is

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_09]: deeply, deeply upsetting.

[01:18:02] [SPEAKER_09]: And you're like, oh, this is like a more harrowing thing than you're even kind of led to expect

[01:18:07] [SPEAKER_09]: from this reality.

[01:18:08] [SPEAKER_09]: And then almost immediately she's dissolved.

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_07]: She zaps into non-existence.

[01:18:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, they shoot her.

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:18:17] [SPEAKER_07]: And then she goes to the Red Room and she says, I know, fuck you, when she's told she's

[01:18:21] [SPEAKER_07]: manufactured and she turns into a, you know, seed.

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_09]: But that coming very close to the kind of like very quiet passive reveal that what's his

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_09]: name?

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Richard Horn?

[01:18:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Richard Horn is the son.

[01:18:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Is also the result of Mr. C.

[01:18:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Sexually assaulting Audrey.

[01:18:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Does make it feel like, oh, in the immediate aftermath of that moment in the mirror at the end of

[01:19:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Twin Peaks.

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_09]: One of whom might be in a coma.

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_07]: To this day.

[01:19:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:19:07] [SPEAKER_09]: And what we're getting now by jumping this many years ahead just from the nature of when

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_09]: the show actually started filming is this guy almost like running on fumes.

[01:19:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Like there is something kind of like bored and checked out by this guy who is like.

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, no.

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_07]: So he's just like creating Rube Goldberg machines so he can't get zapped by another zone or

[01:19:25] [SPEAKER_07]: whatever.

[01:19:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think there's even the implication, right, because all of this is sort of thrown into

[01:19:31] [SPEAKER_02]: some new equation by like Cooper in 18, right?

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Who seems to be this like fusion of all Coopers.

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about it.

[01:19:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's this like watching it this time and thinking about like, okay, we get this

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_02]: like kind of convoluted story about how Cooper and David Bowie and Gordon Cole launched

[01:19:50] [SPEAKER_02]: this plan like, you know, 25 years ago and it was all leading towards capturing Judy that

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: like there's almost this feeling that like Mr. C is part of the plan.

[01:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Like Mr. C isn't even a, like an antagonist.

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_07]: I meant to, you know, it's the Joker.

[01:20:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I, you know, I was supposed to go to jail.

[01:20:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:20:08] [SPEAKER_07]: That was part of the plan.

[01:20:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And that like, I imagine there's something that's being said, right, about like the

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: myth of Agent Cooper.

[01:20:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:20:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Which I think is what the finale is about.

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: But I still don't think it's a very interesting performance or character.

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_07]: That's fair.

[01:20:25] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, so like, I feel like what you're saying also is like when Bob is in Leland,

[01:20:28] [SPEAKER_07]: right?

[01:20:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Like Leland, classic Leland from Twin Peaks.

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Like that's such a fascinating like wrestling between, you know, this, this horrible darkness

[01:20:37] [SPEAKER_07]: and this real person and Ray Wise is so good and the mania is so interesting.

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And right.

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Like Mr.

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_07]: C is just like, yeah, what if Bob was in like a golem body basically?

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_07]: He doesn't even seem like Bob.

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:20:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, no, because Bob, you know.

[01:20:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Bob's drooling everywhere.

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And Bob is to, as the kids say now, serving cunt, right?

[01:20:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Like Bob is so showy.

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Are the kids saying that now?

[01:21:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Theatrical, right?

[01:21:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Are your children saying that now?

[01:21:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Bob has crazy monologues, you know, talking about his death bag.

[01:21:11] [SPEAKER_07]: But I'm like, if, if David Lynch and Mark Frost.

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Where's Mr.

[01:21:14] [SPEAKER_07]: She's like, hello.

[01:21:16] [SPEAKER_09]: How are you?

[01:21:18] [SPEAKER_09]: She squishes someone's head and then like moves on.

[01:21:20] [SPEAKER_09]: If David Lynch and Mark Frost had made season three in 1991 or whatever, is that what we

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_09]: would have gotten?

[01:21:29] [SPEAKER_09]: You know?

[01:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I believe that they've said on the record that it would have turned out that they were

[01:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: all aliens.

[01:21:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Hell yeah.

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And creamed corn is the food that they eat to survive.

[01:21:38] [SPEAKER_07]: There was definitely lots of plans for UFO stuff.

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Like it was going to be X-Files before X-Files.

[01:21:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Because that's all the implications at the end of season two of like, yeah, Garland Briggs

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_07]: has been like tracking UFOs from a weird station and there's a lot of stuff going on.

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_07]: That's cool.

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_07]: They definitely had a Evil Cooper plan, certainly.

[01:21:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[01:21:57] [SPEAKER_07]: It was not going to like open with whatever season three of Twin Peaks in 1992 of like,

[01:22:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Evil Cooper is gone and we're back to regular Twin Peaks.

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Like there was going to be an arc.

[01:22:05] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm saying if that had happened at the time, do we think they would have given us the version

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_09]: of, oh, this is really Bob in Cooper's body.

[01:22:14] [SPEAKER_02]: That seems like that's who it is more.

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Where's it?

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Even where is Annie as a line?

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like there's so much more color in it.

[01:22:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

[01:22:22] [SPEAKER_09]: I think amazing.

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_09]: But there's something that like is carried holistically across the show, which is this

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_09]: kind of like sad hollowing out of everything and everyone.

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_09]: And even the warmest scenes on the show, the scenes that are kind of satisfying as like,

[01:22:38] [SPEAKER_09]: oh, look, it's our old friends having a conversation again in a location where you remember the way

[01:22:44] [SPEAKER_09]: that Lynch is playing with time in the show, that he is like leaving these odd pauses in

[01:22:51] [SPEAKER_09]: and stretching scenes out beyond their natural or kind of expected rhythms does make everything

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_09]: just feel kind of odd and off in a way where to a certain degree, like we have these new characters

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_09]: and these new environments that are being established that are inexplicable.

[01:23:08] [SPEAKER_09]: And every time we go back to sort of legacy stuff, it feels like they're almost stuck in like a historical

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_09]: reenactment mode.

[01:23:16] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, like here are these older people showing up wearing the same costumes in the

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_09]: same spaces, same hairstyles, kind of doing a version of what they were doing before.

[01:23:25] [SPEAKER_09]: But yet he's not trying to get them to fully.

[01:23:28] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know, hit the same target.

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_09]: There's something to me.

[01:23:33] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I'm still processing all of this.

[01:23:35] [SPEAKER_09]: This is all very new for me.

[01:23:37] [SPEAKER_09]: And I understand where you're coming from, but there's something I find kind of more

[01:23:42] [SPEAKER_09]: profound and upsetting in the fact that like Mr. C is just kind of boring and shitty.

[01:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:23:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, he's boring and shitty.

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_09]: That it's like we missed out on the period of him being a fun supervillain.

[01:23:55] [SPEAKER_09]: And now he's just an awful guy, like a kind of awful, boring guy.

[01:23:59] [SPEAKER_09]: He's lived so long as like a supernatural force possessing a body of good that now he's

[01:24:06] [SPEAKER_09]: just settled into some routine.

[01:24:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Other things happened in part 15 that I wanted to mention.

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_07]: The insane sort of snippet scene between Caleb and Andrew Jones and Alicia Witt.

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_07]: It's incredible.

[01:24:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Sort of resolving a story there, but also leaving a lot open to you.

[01:24:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Have we seen Gersten, Alicia Witt's character, in any other episode?

[01:24:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you see her briefly like hiding on a staircase.

[01:24:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's right.

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Like a few episodes prior.

[01:24:36] [SPEAKER_07]: But like, obviously she's in Twin Peaks as a young actor.

[01:24:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Because she knows David Lynch from Dune.

[01:24:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And she plays the piano.

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_07]: And that scene is also kind of...

[01:24:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Anything you guys want to say about that?

[01:24:49] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, perhaps a dumb podcast statement.

[01:24:53] [SPEAKER_09]: But watching this, I was like, oh, this must have been the thing that made Oz Perkins hire her for Long Legs.

[01:25:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Which I think is an extraordinary performance.

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_09]: You and I like Alicia Witt a lot and talk about her a lot.

[01:25:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Major crush for you.

[01:25:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Formed a crush for you.

[01:25:08] [SPEAKER_07]: From childhood, Sybil.

[01:25:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Long Legs, I was like, I genuinely had no idea she had this in her.

[01:25:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[01:25:12] [SPEAKER_09]: She's never shown this before in her career.

[01:25:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, and then you're seeing this.

[01:25:14] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm seeing this, I'm like, oh, this is the one other time she's shown this.

[01:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like great writing.

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it is.

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_07]: It is.

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_02]: What does he say about like bluebirds or something?

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's also that magic thing that this show can do where it's like, we're just going to give you, right, this kind of little master class.

[01:25:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Almost just sort of floating in space and you can watch it and experience it and then move on.

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's sort of this implication of like, he has murdered Amanda Seyfried, right?

[01:25:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And now is suiciding.

[01:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Going to kill himself, probably.

[01:25:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:25:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:25:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And just like that, that all kind of wraps up as this another one of these like half satisfying, if that much echoes of like another dead blonde girl, you know, is.

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, that's a very good point.

[01:26:01] [SPEAKER_09]: And one that is not even shown on screen is never sort of like referenced again, that it's an implication that like the cycle is starting again.

[01:26:09] [SPEAKER_09]: There is another death in this town that is probably going to shake people to their core.

[01:26:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And the most like memorable moment of that whole plot line, I think, is like Amanda Seyfried's close up in the car, right?

[01:26:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Like after she does the drive, like just like that's David Lynch, just like look at beauty.

[01:26:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:26:27] [SPEAKER_07]: And I feel, yeah, that is like an image people, you know, like post all the time, like they recall so fondly.

[01:26:34] [SPEAKER_07]: It's also like beauty engaging with beauty.

[01:26:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Like it's like a beautiful face looking at the wonder of the sky, listening to a perfect pop song.

[01:26:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Like it is this moment of purity in the life of someone who already is like trapped in cycles of hell.

[01:26:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Other things, the death of poor, poor Patrick Fishler in Vegas.

[01:26:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I don't feel that bad for him.

[01:26:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Shot and explode.

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Like there's a dummy of him that just like explodes.

[01:27:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:27:03] [SPEAKER_07]: It's very cool.

[01:27:04] [SPEAKER_07]: You have Cooper watching Sunset Boulevard and hearing the name Gordon Cole and, you know, jamming a fork into a socket.

[01:27:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:27:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Sort of the conclusion of whatever.

[01:27:18] [SPEAKER_07]: He's doing it.

[01:27:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Dougie Cooper.

[01:27:19] [SPEAKER_07]: It unlocked in him.

[01:27:21] [SPEAKER_07]: He's ready to come back.

[01:27:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:27:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Where I guess you feel like you're like, yay, like finally we're going to get some.

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, he'll be back.

[01:27:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Now the show can start 16 hours.

[01:27:30] [SPEAKER_09]: I think to some people.

[01:27:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:27:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, and of course the farewell to the log, but to Margaret.

[01:27:35] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, this is incredible.

[01:27:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Unbelievable.

[01:27:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:27:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Like kind of like which I watch both times, like just hushed tone kind of like, you know, it's.

[01:27:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's beautifully performed, but also just like, you know, I don't know.

[01:27:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I love it when Twin Peaks is like purely emotional in that way.

[01:27:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you remember this thing that the New York Times tried to push that did not take where

[01:28:02] [SPEAKER_09]: they would record like prominent elderly figures delivering their own kind of eulogy that they would post as video after they died?

[01:28:13] [SPEAKER_02]: No, but that's awesome.

[01:28:14] [SPEAKER_09]: And the first one they did was, David, what's the name of the humorist who had the lawsuit for coming to America?

[01:28:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Art Buchwald.

[01:28:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Art Buchwald.

[01:28:24] [SPEAKER_07]: The famous Washington Post political satirist and humorist.

[01:28:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.

[01:28:28] [SPEAKER_09]: So they posted this video on the New York Times site that was like, I'm Art Buchwald and I just died.

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_09]: And I saw it on the local news and they interviewed one of the New York Times editors.

[01:28:38] [SPEAKER_09]: And he's like, I mean, that immediately goes down in history as one of the greatest leads in the history of newspapers.

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_09]: And I was like, you're calling your own shot to a major degree.

[01:28:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:28:47] [SPEAKER_09]: And they only did a couple of them.

[01:28:49] [SPEAKER_09]: It felt like it didn't stick with the public and they abandoned it.

[01:28:51] [SPEAKER_09]: But he was stating it as like, this is a thing we're doing and we're going to stockpile them.

[01:28:55] [SPEAKER_09]: And that way, rather than just running some obituary we have saved for years, filed away, we get to let people speak in their own voice.

[01:29:04] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think part of the notion was the profundity of someone recording something that they know will only be heard after they are gone.

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_09]: And I feel like the log lady scenes have that feeling to them where it's like, I mean, he's presumably doing one day of stockpiling five or six scenes.

[01:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I think she was like a day or two away from passing away.

[01:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

[01:29:24] [SPEAKER_09]: It's like her final days of life.

[01:29:27] [SPEAKER_09]: She's on like oxygen and she's delivering like scenes that will be distributed across 18 episodes, but almost definitely will outlive her.

[01:29:37] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that's what you're saying.

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_09]: The weird effect of how sacred this final goodbye feels is that, you know, it is being delivered by someone who knows that this message will outlive them.

[01:29:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:29:50] [SPEAKER_07]: No, it's it almost feels like I shouldn't watch it.

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:29:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Like that.

[01:29:54] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like this is too sort of intimate and private.

[01:29:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:29:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Versus I'm our buckwald and I just died, felt jokey.

[01:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's it's also like the show.

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like so many of these episodes ends with end with an in memoriam.

[01:30:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[01:30:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So much of the cast passed away like right after they released it.

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_09]: I keep talking about this.

[01:30:13] [SPEAKER_09]: It's it's very there's something very haunted about it.

[01:30:17] [SPEAKER_09]: And a lot of it is luck.

[01:30:18] [SPEAKER_09]: He had an older cast for a network show to begin with and he waited many decades to return.

[01:30:23] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's also eleganic for David.

[01:30:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:30:26] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[01:30:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[01:30:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[01:30:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's I think there is this feeling that even after two films, I'm like making films is fucking tiring.

[01:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: When I'm 70 or like you you have to find ways to like make it your life.

[01:30:41] [SPEAKER_02]: If it's just if it's separate from your life, your life is going to have this weird hole in it.

[01:30:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, this is like so much of the fucking David Lynch thing is his whole life being designed around creativity and him basically being like I am monastic in like designing the entire structure of every day of my life around developing work, creating work at the expense of perhaps all other areas of my life.

[01:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But it feels so.

[01:31:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he seems well loved by at least some of the people he collaborates with.

[01:31:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.

[01:31:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And it doesn't seem like he has regrets about it, but you watch those sort of longer form interviews of the documentaries about him and he is just sort of like these are the decisions I've made.

[01:31:21] [SPEAKER_09]: This is how I have to.

[01:31:23] [SPEAKER_09]: It is monastic in a way where it's like I feel a higher calling to a thing.

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_09]: These are the sacrifices I have to make.

[01:31:28] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm happy with them.

[01:31:30] [SPEAKER_09]: But I do think when you're staring down the barrel of like, is this one of the final things I get to make of this size?

[01:31:37] [SPEAKER_09]: And your whole life has been devoted to making things like this.

[01:31:41] [SPEAKER_09]: It is a very bittersweet experience.

[01:31:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, and that the sex scene in episode 18 is just like it's so.

[01:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, talk about sort of a funeral or, you know, like it feels like a death ritual.

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_07]: It's also I mean, which is that's how I fuck.

[01:32:00] [SPEAKER_07]: If you're not fucking like a death ritual, you're not fucking.

[01:32:06] [SPEAKER_07]: We're summoning a portal right now and it ain't to somewhere good.

[01:32:10] [SPEAKER_09]: I call it the grand more.

[01:32:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.

[01:32:13] [SPEAKER_09]: You're not giving it your all.

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to make you call me a different name in a different reality in a letter in the morning.

[01:32:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And then vanish.

[01:32:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:32:26] [SPEAKER_09]: David.

[01:32:27] [SPEAKER_09]: David.

[01:32:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Age you won.

[01:32:30] [SPEAKER_09]: You go for it.

[01:32:31] [SPEAKER_09]: I go for it.

[01:32:33] [SPEAKER_07]: You're the agey one boy here.

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Now, let me say this.

[01:32:35] [SPEAKER_09]: They sponsored us years ago.

[01:32:37] [SPEAKER_09]: I got the free sample.

[01:32:39] [SPEAKER_09]: I got hooked.

[01:32:39] [SPEAKER_09]: I signed up.

[01:32:41] [SPEAKER_09]: I get the shipments every month.

[01:32:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Yep.

[01:32:42] [SPEAKER_09]: They have excitingly come back to the show.

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_09]: They're back.

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_09]: They sent me a new welcome kit.

[01:32:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:32:48] [SPEAKER_09]: I was like, I don't need the welcome kit.

[01:32:50] [SPEAKER_09]: I already got the monthly coming in.

[01:32:52] [SPEAKER_09]: I gifted the welcome kit to my sister.

[01:32:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Now she's in?

[01:32:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Possibly the most meaningful gift I could give to a family member who is stuck with the same temperament

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_09]: and digestive system that I have.

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's a beautiful kit.

[01:33:05] [SPEAKER_09]: I hadn't, you know, I've been in on AG1 in so long.

[01:33:07] [SPEAKER_09]: I forgot the quality of the kit because you get a one month supply.

[01:33:11] [SPEAKER_09]: You get a dropper.

[01:33:13] [SPEAKER_09]: You get, you get a tub and a scoop and a shaker.

[01:33:16] [SPEAKER_09]: You get everything you need.

[01:33:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's a lovely big green box.

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_09]: And maybe I'm jumping ahead here because let me just say, AG1, in my personal experience,

[01:33:25] [SPEAKER_09]: helped me build a healthy morning routine in just 60 seconds.

[01:33:28] [SPEAKER_09]: I get my daily dose of vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, adaptogens, and more.

[01:33:33] [SPEAKER_09]: And that's why I'm so excited to have them as a sponsor.

[01:33:37] [SPEAKER_09]: AG1 is like daily self-care for me.

[01:33:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Something I will admit I'm not very good at.

[01:33:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:33:41] [SPEAKER_09]: And I get to kickstart my day knowing I'm doing at least one good thing for my body every day

[01:33:45] [SPEAKER_09]: when I start my day with AG1.

[01:33:47] [SPEAKER_09]: It gives me everything it needs.

[01:33:49] [SPEAKER_09]: It's the first thing I do in the market.

[01:33:50] [SPEAKER_09]: I go to the-

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_09]: We get it.

[01:33:52] [SPEAKER_07]: You use it every day.

[01:33:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:33:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Drink, drink.

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Good time.

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it's got prebiotics, probiotics, and gut supporting ingredients to support

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_07]: your digestion, reduce bloating, and keep you regular.

[01:34:01] [SPEAKER_07]: It does.

[01:34:03] [SPEAKER_07]: It's damnedest to keep me regular.

[01:34:04] [SPEAKER_07]: You notice any less gas and bloating?

[01:34:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I notice that.

[01:34:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.

[01:34:08] [SPEAKER_07]: I hope you notice it as well.

[01:34:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Do you feel your digestion's improved?

[01:34:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Someone has to spend a lot of time around me.

[01:34:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Do I feel my digestion improves?

[01:34:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Infinitely.

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Well.

[01:34:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Look, it's the greatest endorsement I give for AG1 is I know it works because when I don't take it,

[01:34:22] [SPEAKER_09]: things go sideways real quick.

[01:34:23] [SPEAKER_09]: And I will say that a lot of listeners and friends of the show in person come up to me and go,

[01:34:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, do you mean what you say about AG1?

[01:34:30] [SPEAKER_09]: I listen to those ads.

[01:34:31] [SPEAKER_09]: I know sometimes you talk out of both sides of your mouth because that product sounds pretty good.

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_09]: And I go, I swear by it.

[01:34:35] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think AG1 can tell.

[01:34:37] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't want to brag.

[01:34:38] [SPEAKER_09]: I think they can tell that I mean it when I speak of my love of this product because they sent me a little surprise shipment recently that I texted to you guys.

[01:34:45] [SPEAKER_09]: They sent me an AG1 ball cap.

[01:34:47] [SPEAKER_07]: That's wonderful, Griffin.

[01:34:49] [SPEAKER_07]: It's just such great news.

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_07]: So start with AG1.

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_09]: That's incredible news.

[01:34:51] [SPEAKER_09]: I get to walk around town wearing AG1 at the top of my head, waltzing with pride.

[01:34:57] [SPEAKER_07]: My favorite company.

[01:34:59] [SPEAKER_07]: So start with AG1 and notice the difference for yourself.

[01:35:01] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a great first step to investing in your health.

[01:35:04] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's why I'm so excited to be partnering with them.

[01:35:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm so excited.

[01:35:07] [SPEAKER_07]: But Griffin is very, very excited.

[01:35:09] [SPEAKER_09]: If you see me walking down these streets with a pep in my step and a certain relief in my stomach and you go,

[01:35:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Griffin, what happened?

[01:35:16] [SPEAKER_09]: What made you feel so good and sprightly?

[01:35:18] [SPEAKER_09]: I'll just point to the top of my chapeau where it says AG1.

[01:35:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Try AG1 and get a free bottle of vitamin D3K2 and five free AG1 travel packs.

[01:35:30] [SPEAKER_07]: I forgot to mention the travel pack.

[01:35:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Shush with your first purchase at drinkag1.com slash check.

[01:35:35] [SPEAKER_07]: That's a $48 value for free.

[01:35:36] [SPEAKER_07]: If you go to drinkag1.com slash check, check it out.

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_07]: The travel packs are the best part.

[01:35:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Ding dong, ding dong.

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Ding dong.

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_07]: What if we don't answer the door?

[01:35:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I think it will bring the show to a halt, David.

[01:35:54] [SPEAKER_09]: All right, Creek.

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Hello.

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Hi.

[01:35:57] [SPEAKER_07]: What's up?

[01:35:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I'm pretty worried.

[01:36:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Anxious.

[01:36:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Overwhelmed.

[01:36:03] [SPEAKER_07]: You should probably give me a name.

[01:36:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, Hooper.

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Dr. Hooper.

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.

[01:36:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Hello, Dr. Hooper.

[01:36:08] [SPEAKER_07]: How are you doing?

[01:36:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, you're anxious and overwhelmed.

[01:36:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Why are you anxious and overwhelmed?

[01:36:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, usually I'm hunting a big game fish, sharks, barracuda.

[01:36:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, okay.

[01:36:16] [SPEAKER_07]: You're Hooper from Jaws.

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.

[01:36:19] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's the character that you are.

[01:36:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's who you are.

[01:36:21] [SPEAKER_07]: That's who I am.

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_07]: You're Richard Dreyfuss' character, Hooper.

[01:36:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Correct.

[01:36:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Matt Hooper.

[01:36:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:36:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And you're anxious.

[01:36:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:36:29] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't keep track.

[01:36:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Listen.

[01:36:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Usually I'm anxious about the sharks.

[01:36:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:36:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Their teeth.

[01:36:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Their jaws, if you will.

[01:36:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Right now I'm anxious about finding the perfect gift.

[01:36:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, well.

[01:36:40] [SPEAKER_07]: It's overwhelming.

[01:36:41] [SPEAKER_07]: It's easier to handle.

[01:36:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I know it can be overwhelming, but I have found the perfect spot.

[01:36:47] [SPEAKER_07]: You have found the perfect spot?

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_07]: For timeless gifts made from premium materials, you got to check out Quince.

[01:36:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Now, I am, for real, a bit of a Quince addict.

[01:36:56] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to tell you, Hooper.

[01:36:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I, you know, we get our little promo code.

[01:37:01] [SPEAKER_07]: I can see the truth in your eyes.

[01:37:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we can get our little promo code as host of the show for the advertisers that we work

[01:37:06] [SPEAKER_07]: with.

[01:37:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And we get a little bit of freedom.

[01:37:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Go get yourself a pair of pants.

[01:37:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Try a lot.

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Walk around the house.

[01:37:12] [SPEAKER_07]: See if you like them.

[01:37:13] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm kind of locked keyed in with Quince.

[01:37:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm getting a lot of Quince stuff, guys.

[01:37:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Have you guys done Quince?

[01:37:19] [SPEAKER_07]: I got this really nice, like, kind of cashmere long shirt.

[01:37:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Really warm.

[01:37:23] [SPEAKER_07]: One of those experiences where, like, in the middle of the day, I was like, I feel great.

[01:37:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Why do I, oh, this shirt is really, really soft and nice.

[01:37:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I was going to say, it's so soft.

[01:37:32] [SPEAKER_07]: What an enthusiastic ad reader.

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_07]: I really like Quince.

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_09]: With incredible personal experience.

[01:37:36] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm talking, of course, about their iconic Mongolian cashmere sweaters who started $50.

[01:37:40] [SPEAKER_07]: They got fleece sweatpants.

[01:37:41] [SPEAKER_07]: That's a major upgrade to any sweatpants you might have, Hooper.

[01:37:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, can I be honest?

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I said I came in here, I was anxious, overwhelmed, trying to find the perfect gift.

[01:37:50] [SPEAKER_09]: It's not true.

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, in a sense, it's true.

[01:37:52] [SPEAKER_09]: You're lying.

[01:37:53] [SPEAKER_09]: I was looking to get a gift for myself.

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, oh, okay, well.

[01:37:56] [SPEAKER_09]: I need to change my wardrobe.

[01:37:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, well, that's the thing, you know?

[01:37:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Right now, it's 90% Canadian tuxedo, 10% wetsuit.

[01:38:03] [SPEAKER_08]: You're also soaking wet.

[01:38:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, you've got to stop.

[01:38:05] [SPEAKER_09]: That's why I've got to wear the wetsuit.

[01:38:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Stop going in the cage.

[01:38:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Because the denim doesn't play well in water.

[01:38:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Look, I want to wrap this ad up, but I do want to tell you that no matter what your-

[01:38:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Denim boxers, denim socks?

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_07]: No matter what you're looking for, all-

[01:38:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Denim glasses?

[01:38:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Are priced 50% to 80% less than some of their brands because they partner directly with the top factories.

[01:38:21] [SPEAKER_07]: They cut out the cost of the middleman.

[01:38:22] [SPEAKER_07]: And those savings get passed on right over to you.

[01:38:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And they only work with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices.

[01:38:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Sounds perfect.

[01:38:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Get yourself some quints.

[01:38:32] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to call to action if you don't mind, Mr. Hooper.

[01:38:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Please, absolutely.

[01:38:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, yes.

[01:38:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[01:38:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Gift luxury this holiday season without the luxury price tag.

[01:38:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Go to quints.com slash check for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order.

[01:38:45] [SPEAKER_07]: That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash check.

[01:38:48] [SPEAKER_07]: To get free shipping and 365 day returns, quints.com slash check.

[01:38:53] [SPEAKER_09]: When they go to the boiler room underneath the Bing Bang, and you have this sort of like three shot of now real Diane, Cooper back in his body, and Agent Cole, it does feel like as much as there are many, many pivotal collaborators Lynch has had, even just the on-screen collaborators.

[01:39:25] [SPEAKER_09]: There does feel, it feels like there's something about like, at the end of the day, it kind of comes down to these three.

[01:39:32] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, like Lynch putting himself on screen with two of his greatest like leads he ever found.

[01:39:37] [SPEAKER_09]: And these people who felt like avatars for him to a certain degree, and also were the younger stars that he developed because a lot of his older analogs are gone now.

[01:39:48] [SPEAKER_09]: It does feel like he's looking back on everything and having the two of them have this like incredibly tender, sad, sensitive love scene feels like part of that as well.

[01:39:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Where the same song plays, right?

[01:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't it the same song from the radio?

[01:40:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:40:02] [SPEAKER_02]: In episode eight.

[01:40:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:40:04] [SPEAKER_02]: That's this like, you know, 1950s childhood hope.

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But like compare it to the way that like Laura Dern has sex in Wild at Heart.

[01:40:14] [SPEAKER_09]: You know?

[01:40:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's like a wildly different thing.

[01:40:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Like that is like playing under like guitar riffs.

[01:40:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's like hallucinatory, like camera lingering on her body stuff.

[01:40:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Not an exploitative way, but it's like very like a static shit.

[01:40:30] [SPEAKER_09]: And here is just like the thing you actually rarely see in movies.

[01:40:34] [SPEAKER_09]: I find is like two people having sex in the dark.

[01:40:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but I mean, it's well, let's talk about the sexy in a second.

[01:40:41] [SPEAKER_07]: First, in part 16.

[01:40:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.

[01:40:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Cooper comes back.

[01:40:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Cooper, real Cooper.

[01:40:46] [SPEAKER_07]: I am the FBI Cooper.

[01:40:48] [SPEAKER_07]: We also have the explosion of Richard Horn, which we talked about.

[01:40:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Satisfying and yet also baffling, I would say.

[01:40:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Just as a sort of like, oh, okay.

[01:40:56] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm happy to see him gone.

[01:40:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[01:40:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[01:40:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Cherry Horn watching from the distance.

[01:41:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:41:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:41:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Having a weird time.

[01:41:04] [SPEAKER_07]: We finally have the disposal of poor Tim Roth and Jennifer Jason Lee getting murdered by a random Polish guy.

[01:41:11] Right?

[01:41:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:41:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Love this guy.

[01:41:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Fuck you.

[01:41:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Basically just in like a parking disagreement.

[01:41:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I guess so.

[01:41:18] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I don't know what I'm supposed to think if there's anything deeper going on there.

[01:41:21] [SPEAKER_09]: You also have the FBI watching being like, should we intervene?

[01:41:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Like what?

[01:41:25] [SPEAKER_09]: It feels like shitty people are just getting rid of each other.

[01:41:28] [SPEAKER_09]: So what's the conflict here?

[01:41:30] [SPEAKER_09]: This poor neighborhood.

[01:41:31] [SPEAKER_09]: People are under a lot of stress.

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:41:34] [SPEAKER_09]: That's another character we never go back to is the Haley Gates with the small child.

[01:41:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, so good.

[01:41:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:41:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:41:39] [SPEAKER_02]: There's some moment, like some scenes in this show reminded me of Breaking Bad to the point where I was like, was David Lynch watching Breaking Bad?

[01:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just kind of like.

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: That neighborhood feels very.

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's.

[01:41:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:41:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Like sort of post-recession.

[01:41:52] [SPEAKER_02]: The scene with the guy from Lost Highway where he like does the coin in the air.

[01:41:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And it stays in the air.

[01:41:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Like that scene always felt very like Breaking Bad coded to me.

[01:42:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I wonder if David Lynch was just like.

[01:42:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he thought it was awesome.

[01:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And like the way that scene is like just this extended like mishap feels very like post-Cohen brothers.

[01:42:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Like.

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:42:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:42:13] [SPEAKER_07]: We never see Haley Gates.

[01:42:14] [SPEAKER_07]: I remember I read an interview with Mark Frost where someone was like, what was going on with that?

[01:42:17] [SPEAKER_07]: And he was like, I just say the people in another world talk backwards.

[01:42:20] [SPEAKER_07]: She's saying like 119.

[01:42:22] [SPEAKER_07]: And I was like, I love it that they just think about this stuff.

[01:42:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:42:26] [SPEAKER_07]: People with a foot in another world.

[01:42:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[01:42:28] [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's how he's putting it.

[01:42:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:42:31] [SPEAKER_07]: That's where we get people under a lot of stress.

[01:42:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:42:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Yep.

[01:42:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Yep.

[01:42:34] [SPEAKER_07]: God, I love those guys.

[01:42:36] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, Cooper is back.

[01:42:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Bids farewell to Janie E and Sonny Jim.

[01:42:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:42:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Says, don't worry, you're going to get a great Dougie Jones sent to you essentially in the mail.

[01:42:47] [SPEAKER_07]: They recognize that he is not their husband and father.

[01:42:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:42:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Diane Tulpa is destroyed after the monologue we discussed.

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And then it's turned into a seed.

[01:43:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Great stuff.

[01:43:02] [SPEAKER_07]: And I guess we've talked about a lot of this stuff already.

[01:43:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Audrey does her dance.

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:43:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, we sort of understand what has happened to Audrey, I guess.

[01:43:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Like that, I think that Audrey has just been comatose.

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_07]: People have complained that I've been like, I don't want to talk about,

[01:43:17] [SPEAKER_07]: like theories in the prior episodes.

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_07]: But this is the last one.

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Because I didn't want to spoil anything.

[01:43:22] [SPEAKER_07]: And also because I think you can do whatever you want with Twin Peaks The Return.

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And it isn't a thing where I'm like, I've solved the show.

[01:43:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Can you give us your read on the Audrey thing?

[01:43:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Can you unpack it a little more?

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_07]: She gets blown up in the finale of season two.

[01:43:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone forgets that plot line because it's bizarre.

[01:43:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:43:36] [SPEAKER_07]: It's incredible, though.

[01:43:37] [SPEAKER_07]: It's awesome.

[01:43:38] [SPEAKER_07]: But a safe deposit box blows her up, I guess.

[01:43:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And so I guess the implication is she's never recovered.

[01:43:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And that she was assaulted and had a baby in hospital, I guess.

[01:43:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And like, you know, but like that, and that's Richard Horn.

[01:43:51] [SPEAKER_07]: But all of this is in her mind.

[01:43:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:43:54] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a representation of what's happened to her, I guess.

[01:43:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Right?

[01:43:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, that's the simplest way to think about it.

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think there's probably more confidence.

[01:44:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's unbelievably bleak.

[01:44:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[01:44:02] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a little bleak.

[01:44:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:44:03] [SPEAKER_07]: A little?

[01:44:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Does the, but the scene in the roadhouse touches other characters who we see elsewhere,

[01:44:11] [SPEAKER_02]: right?

[01:44:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:44:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it, it almost, it feels to me like this like layered, you know, like each space

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_02]: is its own like memory, you know, its own dream of another space.

[01:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think she's like, she touches the rest of the show just enough for it not to quite

[01:44:25] [SPEAKER_02]: work.

[01:44:25] [SPEAKER_02]: That it's this like own separate unreality, right?

[01:44:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And it speaks to how Audrey in Twin Peaks is in the high school, but not really friends

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_07]: with any of those characters and quickly moves beyond that storyline and is often in her

[01:44:39] [SPEAKER_07]: own weird storyline, like with one-eyed Jax or the bank or whatever, you know, like where

[01:44:44] [SPEAKER_07]: she's kind of doing her own thing.

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Girl bossing to make the lodge a better business.

[01:44:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Like where you're like, what, you know, which is partly, I guess, them just not knowing what

[01:44:53] [SPEAKER_07]: to do with Audrey, right?

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_07]: When they're like, oh, I guess she can't hook up with Cooper.

[01:44:56] [SPEAKER_07]: What do we do?

[01:44:57] [SPEAKER_07]: She just does other stuff.

[01:44:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:44:59] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[01:45:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Love Audrey.

[01:45:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:45:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:45:02] [SPEAKER_02]: There's just like something in David Lynch's gaze on her here in general, but especially during

[01:45:07] [SPEAKER_02]: that dance that I find like affecting.

[01:45:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:45:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Touching.

[01:45:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Setting in a way.

[01:45:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:45:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the way that she's like not Audrey anymore.

[01:45:18] [SPEAKER_09]: But also, I think, I think you said something that's affected earlier in the record, but

[01:45:23] [SPEAKER_09]: that it's like her dancing to her own theme song is an acknowledgement of like, we can't

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_09]: go back.

[01:45:29] [SPEAKER_09]: This wrestling with the sort of nostalgia and the legacy of the show where it's like, it's

[01:45:34] [SPEAKER_09]: this character almost tortured by the fact that she can't be original Audrey anymore.

[01:45:40] [SPEAKER_07]: It would be funny if she danced to Sharp Dressed Man instead.

[01:45:43] [SPEAKER_07]: They were just like, because they danced to Sharp Dressed Man.

[01:45:46] [SPEAKER_07]: My constant crusade to get Ben to like ZZ Top.

[01:45:49] [SPEAKER_07]: ZZ Top's in Twin Peaks The Return.

[01:45:51] [SPEAKER_09]: They call it out, don't they?

[01:45:52] [SPEAKER_09]: They go like, yeah.

[01:45:53] [SPEAKER_09]: And now, Sharp Dressed Man.

[01:45:54] [SPEAKER_09]: And people are like, this song rules.

[01:45:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Ben should like this.

[01:45:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Why doesn't Ben like them?

[01:45:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Is this also the, this is, and it's right after Eddie Vedder plays.

[01:46:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[01:46:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But under a fake name, he's playing a character, right?

[01:46:04] [SPEAKER_02]: He's playing as his birth name.

[01:46:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, interesting.

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_02]: What is his birth name?

[01:46:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to look it up.

[01:46:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I think so.

[01:46:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:46:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I think you're right.

[01:46:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Richard Severus III or something.

[01:46:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Edward Lewis Severus III.

[01:46:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Hell yeah.

[01:46:16] [SPEAKER_08]: That was a good name change.

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:46:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:46:19] [SPEAKER_07]: He figured it out.

[01:46:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Part 17 is, right, is the satisfying conclusion in a way to Twin Peaks The Return.

[01:46:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Gordon lays out to everybody like, so I've been on the tail of a mythological

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_07]: evil force named Jody, Judy, whatever, for the last 25 years.

[01:46:36] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, okay, it's episode 17.

[01:46:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:46:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got some stuff to tell you.

[01:46:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, Albert, I've been hiding something.

[01:46:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I guess I owe you guys.

[01:46:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Jeffries was in league with me.

[01:46:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Possibly, you know, Cooper was sort of involved too.

[01:46:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And so that's really what we've been working on.

[01:46:50] [SPEAKER_07]: And now Cooper is back and we're going to go to Twin Peaks Sheriff Department, like where

[01:46:55] [SPEAKER_07]: he's going to like finally have this big showdown.

[01:46:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And they have a big showdown because the, I guess it's like Mr. C, the doppelganger,

[01:47:05] [SPEAKER_07]: he's trying to use the portal to go somewhere else, right?

[01:47:08] [SPEAKER_07]: This is what's totally...

[01:47:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And the fireman kind of like pulls some levers and Garland Briggs' head wobbles a bit.

[01:47:14] [SPEAKER_07]: That's right.

[01:47:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And he's like, no, you get sent to Twin Peaks instead.

[01:47:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But wasn't he kind of already in Twin Peaks?

[01:47:18] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I don't because like Richard is there.

[01:47:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he like enters a portal.

[01:47:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:47:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:47:23] [SPEAKER_07]: He goes, I think he goes to like the portal that we saw earlier up in the mountains.

[01:47:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:47:28] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think he's trying to go somewhere else, right?

[01:47:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And he gets sent to Twin Peaks.

[01:47:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[01:47:32] [SPEAKER_02]: He's a little like, what?

[01:47:34] [SPEAKER_02]: When he gets to the Sheriff's Department.

[01:47:35] [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, that he is shot triumphantly by Lucy, who figures out how cell phones work

[01:47:43] [SPEAKER_07]: and that there are two Coopers.

[01:47:45] [SPEAKER_07]: And the woodsmen come to do their little...

[01:47:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm doing the woodsmen.

[01:47:50] [SPEAKER_07]: But I guess Bob comes out.

[01:47:53] [SPEAKER_07]: The orb comes out.

[01:47:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know what's supposed to be different at this point.

[01:47:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe it's just time for no more Mr. C.

[01:47:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Like Bob's just got to go somewhere else.

[01:48:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the other thing that's different is that real Cooper is there.

[01:48:04] [SPEAKER_07]: So I guess that's part of it, right?

[01:48:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:48:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Like Bob is no longer able to like heal in his body.

[01:48:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:48:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember being sort of like, because I was watching it this time to watch sort of like

[01:48:15] [SPEAKER_02]: how they get from one space to another.

[01:48:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is really strange that like Cooper, evil Cooper gets to Twin Peaks.

[01:48:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:48:23] [SPEAKER_02]: All the way there.

[01:48:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Then has to go to an alternate dimension to get to the Sheriff's Station.

[01:48:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But it almost feels like that it's like the whole series, you know, they've been trying

[01:48:34] [SPEAKER_02]: to get to Twin Peaks.

[01:48:35] [SPEAKER_02]: They've been trying to return.

[01:48:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And now like finally we've reached the point in the narrative where like both of them can

[01:48:42] [SPEAKER_02]: combine in some sense.

[01:48:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, the other key difference is that one punch man is in the room this time.

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:48:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Freddy.

[01:48:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Freddy is there and he, I mean, I think again, the visual effects here are awesome.

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Like they're cool.

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_07]: So cool.

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Angry Bob Sphere is awesome.

[01:48:56] [SPEAKER_07]: He should be putting like a Marvel versus Capcom.

[01:48:59] [SPEAKER_07]: It could just be him.

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Like the description of Bob is very good.

[01:49:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Twin Peaks versus Capcom.

[01:49:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:49:06] [SPEAKER_07]: That sounds great.

[01:49:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Are you kidding me?

[01:49:08] [SPEAKER_07]: You can someone like turned into a Tulpa, right?

[01:49:10] [SPEAKER_07]: You can have like a Tulpa spell.

[01:49:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, like Twin Peaks continue.

[01:49:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Like if you reboot, if I rebooted Twin Peaks, the internet would be very mad at me.

[01:49:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But if Twin Peaks was rebooted by Nintendo as a series of tennis cart fighting.

[01:49:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Super Twin Peaks fight.

[01:49:29] [SPEAKER_07]: People would be ecstatic.

[01:49:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Birdo.

[01:49:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Twin Peaks party jamper.

[01:49:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Birdo and Shy Guy.

[01:49:34] [SPEAKER_07]: These would be great.

[01:49:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, like the little jumping man basically is a shy guy.

[01:49:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Hike the Spike.

[01:49:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Hike the Spike.

[01:49:39] [SPEAKER_07]: I miss Hike the Spike.

[01:49:39] [SPEAKER_09]: There's that story we've heard about how, I feel like this is like public, but all the

[01:49:46] [SPEAKER_09]: sort of licensing out of The Sopranos, the video game, the slot machines and all this

[01:49:51] [SPEAKER_09]: shit where the cast was like, isn't this going to diminish the show?

[01:49:54] [SPEAKER_09]: And David Chase was like, none of this touches the show.

[01:49:57] [SPEAKER_09]: The show is the show.

[01:49:59] [SPEAKER_09]: If the show stays good, I don't care if we're fucking making money off the site on like slot

[01:50:03] [SPEAKER_09]: machines.

[01:50:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:50:04] [SPEAKER_09]: 100%.

[01:50:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I do kind of wish David Lynch would be like, you know what?

[01:50:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Open game.

[01:50:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Like everyone do what you want with Twin Peaks now.

[01:50:12] [SPEAKER_09]: I finished my statement.

[01:50:13] [SPEAKER_09]: The rights are now open.

[01:50:14] [SPEAKER_02]: He made those Japanese coffee ads.

[01:50:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:50:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:50:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:50:18] [SPEAKER_08]: He should do that.

[01:50:19] [SPEAKER_08]: Twin Peaks emoji blitz.

[01:50:20] [SPEAKER_08]: It would be a great pinball.

[01:50:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:50:22] [SPEAKER_08]: The return.

[01:50:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Is there definitely, well, the return, especially where your ball just sort of disappears.

[01:50:27] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:50:28] [SPEAKER_08]: And then it ends up in a different pinball machine.

[01:50:32] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[01:50:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Like two down.

[01:50:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And the machine shoots coins in your eye.

[01:50:36] [SPEAKER_02]: The little screen starts just showing an 8-bit broom sweeping for 14 minutes.

[01:50:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Or it opens its face and it just screams cunt at you.

[01:50:48] [SPEAKER_09]: You're, dare I say it, you're serving cunt in this episode.

[01:50:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, look.

[01:50:53] [SPEAKER_07]: That's the Brit in me.

[01:50:54] [SPEAKER_09]: David's from the UK.

[01:50:54] [SPEAKER_09]: He can say it.

[01:50:55] [SPEAKER_09]: I just felt uncomfortable saying it.

[01:50:58] [SPEAKER_07]: It is.

[01:50:59] [SPEAKER_07]: I do reflect on the fact that like that's a word I would say in front of like my friend's

[01:51:02] [SPEAKER_07]: parents in high school because it's such an innocuous word.

[01:51:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:51:05] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like calling someone a jerk.

[01:51:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway.

[01:51:08] [SPEAKER_07]: It's insane.

[01:51:08] [SPEAKER_07]: We then get what I think is just, it's so awesome.

[01:51:11] [SPEAKER_07]: The explosion of Bob, but then like, right.

[01:51:13] [SPEAKER_07]: The almost parody of like, bring in the girls from the Vegas casino.

[01:51:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Bring in everyone.

[01:51:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone.

[01:51:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's do a curtain call.

[01:51:19] [SPEAKER_09]: It's like a Wizard of Oz, like saying goodbye to all the friends you've made along the way.

[01:51:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:51:24] [SPEAKER_07]: But superimposed over this like lovely farewell is Cooper's face.

[01:51:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And he is, we like just, we're just this impression of like we're in a dream, right?

[01:51:34] [SPEAKER_07]: And he is the dream.

[01:51:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Like this is one way it could work out maybe for, you know, for Cooper to perceive it this

[01:51:41] [SPEAKER_07]: way.

[01:51:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:51:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it dissolves to him and we stay with him, right?

[01:51:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, like eventually superimposed Cooper.

[01:51:50] [SPEAKER_07]: We live inside a dream.

[01:51:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And then he becomes like the only Cooper.

[01:51:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's when we go into the furnace room and then he goes to see Mike, like, and they

[01:52:00] [SPEAKER_07]: do the fire walk with me chant.

[01:52:02] [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, they.

[01:52:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very obviously not young Laura Palmer in certain shots.

[01:52:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:52:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, right.

[01:52:07] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, because we're getting real footage.

[01:52:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:52:09] [SPEAKER_09]: And then once she breaks out of the conversation, then it's, but this is the shit I love.

[01:52:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, the constant ongoing conversation about like the proper technology for de-aging and

[01:52:22] [SPEAKER_09]: are we on the cusp of it and whatever.

[01:52:24] [SPEAKER_09]: And people trying to crack this nut of like, how do you successfully digitally de-age actors

[01:52:28] [SPEAKER_09]: and keep them at the perfect age in their perfect projects?

[01:52:31] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm like, I accept this.

[01:52:33] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't bump on this at all.

[01:52:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Of course not.

[01:52:35] [SPEAKER_09]: There was the moment where I clock.

[01:52:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, we've gone from vintage 1992 footage.

[01:52:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Totally.

[01:52:40] [SPEAKER_09]: To new footage, but he's keeping her far enough away from the camera.

[01:52:44] [SPEAKER_09]: He's putting a lot of makeup on her.

[01:52:46] [SPEAKER_09]: He's putting a wig on her.

[01:52:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I get what this means.

[01:52:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, I'm not fucking struggling.

[01:52:51] [SPEAKER_02]: There genuinely is this moment in fire walk with me where she kind of like looks off screen

[01:52:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and just kind of like gasps and it's taken advantage of here to be like she saw Cooper.

[01:53:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:53:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I totally buy it.

[01:53:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Me too.

[01:53:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I totally buy that.

[01:53:04] [SPEAKER_02]: That was the plan.

[01:53:04] [SPEAKER_09]: It feels upsetting to have the eras in conversation with each other.

[01:53:09] [SPEAKER_09]: It's very, very jarring.

[01:53:10] [SPEAKER_09]: It cuts from that footage now in black and white put in a sort of a language that's more

[01:53:14] [SPEAKER_09]: of the return.

[01:53:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And then we cut to the reverse of it.

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's just Cooper at his current age watching.

[01:53:20] [SPEAKER_07]: It feels wrong.

[01:53:22] [SPEAKER_07]: And those shots of the woods and just her screaming.

[01:53:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, she's got the most iconic.

[01:53:25] [SPEAKER_07]: It takes me right to Blair Witch, which I always associate with like woods and screaming.

[01:53:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:53:31] [SPEAKER_07]: The scariest shit in Blair Witch is just her screaming.

[01:53:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and she hears we hear that sound which plays throughout the series.

[01:53:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like David Lynch was fascinated by a slowed down slot machine.

[01:53:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:53:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Jack Potts.

[01:53:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:53:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we hear.

[01:53:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we hear it a lot in the casino.

[01:53:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And like we hear like he hears that sound and he turns around and she's getting whisked

[01:53:53] [SPEAKER_02]: away.

[01:53:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's sort of like, oh, sorry.

[01:53:56] [SPEAKER_09]: But the other thing is, it feels like he's re-edited this footage to match the weird unnatural

[01:54:02] [SPEAKER_09]: tempo of the return.

[01:54:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Like now this old footage from the 90s has the sort of like too much dead air, out of rhythm

[01:54:11] [SPEAKER_09]: response time shit.

[01:54:14] [SPEAKER_09]: That feels weird that he's able to like fuck with old.

[01:54:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[01:54:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Frozen footage in that way.

[01:54:21] [SPEAKER_09]: It's a violation.

[01:54:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:54:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Which I think is the point.

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:54:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Is that what Cooper does in his supreme arrogance in a way is he's like, great.

[01:54:29] [SPEAKER_07]: I defeated Bob.

[01:54:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Now I will also save Laura Palmer.

[01:54:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I can do anything.

[01:54:32] [SPEAKER_07]: I he has.

[01:54:33] [SPEAKER_07]: It seems some sort of mastery of the red room and like the crossing between worlds.

[01:54:38] [SPEAKER_07]: He didn't before because there's that moment where he kind of points at the curtain and

[01:54:42] [SPEAKER_07]: it starts flapping when he's in the room where you're like, oh, he's like he knows the rules

[01:54:45] [SPEAKER_07]: of this place now because in the finale of season two, when he's running around the red

[01:54:49] [SPEAKER_07]: room, he's just like running through curtains and looks confused.

[01:54:52] [SPEAKER_07]: And now it's like, yeah, no, he's like evolved into.

[01:54:55] [SPEAKER_07]: And so he can fix everything.

[01:54:56] [SPEAKER_07]: And obviously, like, that's what part part 18 is, is like he has obviously fixed nothing

[01:55:02] [SPEAKER_07]: or he has created a new reality or a new dream or I mean, let's talk about it.

[01:55:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, let's.

[01:55:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, so he makes Laura's body disappear.

[01:55:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:55:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, he plucks her out.

[01:55:13] [SPEAKER_07]: He makes her not die.

[01:55:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.

[01:55:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Jack Nance never discovers her.

[01:55:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Leland ends up in the red room much earlier, basically like protecting everyone else from

[01:55:23] [SPEAKER_09]: his damage.

[01:55:25] [SPEAKER_09]: And then rather than just accept that, he's like, I have to find this universe's version

[01:55:29] [SPEAKER_09]: of Sarah Palmer and Laura Palmer, both of them and like reunite them to heal the wounds.

[01:55:40] [SPEAKER_09]: And it does.

[01:55:41] [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't fucking work.

[01:55:43] [SPEAKER_09]: He can't get resolution.

[01:55:45] [SPEAKER_07]: There's so much going on.

[01:55:47] [SPEAKER_07]: We there's yes.

[01:55:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I don't know what you think, Jane, but yes.

[01:55:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:55:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Generally.

[01:55:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:55:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:55:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Generally, it's sort of like.

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it's just so gutting.

[01:55:59] [SPEAKER_07]: This feeling that like this poor woman is being tortured again.

[01:56:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:56:03] [SPEAKER_07]: This woman who's a new person.

[01:56:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:56:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Carrie.

[01:56:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:56:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:56:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Her name.

[01:56:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, look, let's talk.

[01:56:09] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm like part 18.

[01:56:10] [SPEAKER_07]: I just write.

[01:56:11] [SPEAKER_07]: I want to progress exactly through it.

[01:56:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:56:12] [SPEAKER_07]: We've got first the the one fan service.

[01:56:15] [SPEAKER_07]: The lovely bit.

[01:56:16] [SPEAKER_07]: The creation of the new Dougie Jones just walking in like greeted with open arms.

[01:56:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But it is like I think it's important that we see Dougie in that episode.

[01:56:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:56:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Because like I feel like Dougie is very transparently like meditation.

[01:56:27] [SPEAKER_02]: David Lynch being like this is the only sane way to live.

[01:56:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:56:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it is.

[01:56:33] [SPEAKER_09]: It is the thing I find.

[01:56:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Big slow thumbs up.

[01:56:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:56:36] [SPEAKER_09]: So fascinating about David Lynch in a larger way is like here's this man who is like intensely

[01:56:41] [SPEAKER_09]: spiritual and like spends his time trying to reckon with like the primal forces of the

[01:56:47] [SPEAKER_09]: universe and existence and like the sort of perversion of the world and all of this.

[01:56:54] [SPEAKER_09]: And then simultaneously he's like, you know what makes me happy?

[01:56:58] [SPEAKER_09]: A poster of a cat soda pop, you know, like these like very artificial commercial creations

[01:57:06] [SPEAKER_09]: and this sort of like packaged idea of like domestic bliss are things that he approaches

[01:57:12] [SPEAKER_09]: with zero cynicism.

[01:57:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Like he's like, this is genuinely what makes life worth living.

[01:57:17] [SPEAKER_09]: A bag of Cheetos.

[01:57:19] [SPEAKER_09]: A gym set.

[01:57:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:57:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Like he's he's simultaneously in conversation with like the the absolute like darkness and

[01:57:29] [SPEAKER_09]: the absolute light and also all of the like manmade distractions away from both of those

[01:57:34] [SPEAKER_09]: things.

[01:57:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember while it was airing a friend's read on Twin Peaks and I think she was dealing

[01:57:40] [SPEAKER_02]: with this in her real life, but she was like, to me, this is a show about Alzheimer's.

[01:57:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, interesting.

[01:57:44] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a show about like memory being lost.

[01:57:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And so like Dougie as that like a character living in like this kind of eternal presence.

[01:57:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:57:56] [SPEAKER_09]: And having a loved one who kind of isn't themselves anymore.

[01:57:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And just like.

[01:58:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:58:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And just loving it, you know, just like doing great.

[01:58:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Like putting that against end of episode.

[01:58:07] [SPEAKER_02]: What year is this hunched over sort of like seemingly addled by time confused Cooper is.

[01:58:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's a consciousness is a prison shit.

[01:58:16] [SPEAKER_09]: You're like Dougie's got it fucking figured out.

[01:58:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And there's something like so in in the last two episodes, Cooper is kind of the Cooper

[01:58:24] [SPEAKER_07]: we know, I guess.

[01:58:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:58:25] [SPEAKER_07]: He's got this swagger to him.

[01:58:26] [SPEAKER_07]: But in this episode, he's off, especially after they cross the cross after the sex, the

[01:58:32] [SPEAKER_07]: really, really hot, normal sex that they have.

[01:58:35] [SPEAKER_07]: But the after they cross, like when he goes to see Carrie and she's got a dead body in

[01:58:40] [SPEAKER_07]: her house.

[01:58:41] [SPEAKER_07]: He's just like, you know, like the violence of the diner scene when he's confronts the

[01:58:46] [SPEAKER_07]: guys in the diner.

[01:58:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:58:47] [SPEAKER_07]: He's like this kind of sick cowboy.

[01:58:49] [SPEAKER_07]: All of a sudden, he's not like Cooper at all.

[01:58:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:58:51] [SPEAKER_02]: He's he's lost his like folksy term.

[01:58:55] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like a fusion.

[01:58:56] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like a more realistic Mr. C.

[01:58:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:58:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Like it.

[01:58:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:58:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Or it's like Mr. C is still part of him.

[01:59:01] [SPEAKER_09]: It's like Dougie Cooper and Mr. C all in him as this sort of like while he's like basically

[01:59:07] [SPEAKER_09]: cosplaying as vintage Halloween costume.

[01:59:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Agent Cooper.

[01:59:12] [SPEAKER_09]: The FBI.

[01:59:14] [SPEAKER_02]: The other one thing I noticed this time that I hadn't noticed before is when he first comes

[01:59:20] [SPEAKER_02]: out of the Red Room at the beginning of this episode, he is like arriving at, I believe,

[01:59:25] [SPEAKER_02]: right?

[01:59:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Like this the place that he entered it at the end of season two.

[01:59:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:59:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:59:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Which we haven't seen that much.

[01:59:32] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[01:59:32] [SPEAKER_02]: In this series.

[01:59:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Like with that weird little like puddle thing in front of it, like the the tree that kind

[01:59:38] [SPEAKER_02]: of has a puddle in it.

[01:59:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm talking about?

[01:59:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Or like the little campfire thing.

[01:59:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, with the stones around it.

[01:59:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

[01:59:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:59:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And the tree that's right.

[01:59:49] [SPEAKER_07]: The, um, the arm.

[01:59:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:59:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Brain tree.

[01:59:52] [SPEAKER_07]: It says like, is this the story of the little girl who went down by the lane?

[01:59:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Which feels kind of mocking to me.

[01:59:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:59:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Of like the episode eight stuff.

[02:00:00] [SPEAKER_07]: But also like to me, it's like, well, this is just to me.

[02:00:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, you know, it's like, yeah, you can't fucking drop this storyline, Cooper.

[02:00:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Like you still have to save Laura Palmer.

[02:00:09] [SPEAKER_07]: You just exploded Bob with, you know, like you you've defeated evil.

[02:00:13] [SPEAKER_07]: You live.

[02:00:13] [SPEAKER_07]: The evil is defeated.

[02:00:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Like the, you know, right.

[02:00:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Like we did it when he's like, yeah, but what about Laura Palmer?

[02:00:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's like, why can't you shake this like innocent that you never got to rescue,

[02:00:23] [SPEAKER_07]: even though she was dead before you even arrived?

[02:00:25] [SPEAKER_09]: When he goes to this kind of cowboy diner, right?

[02:00:28] [SPEAKER_09]: The, uh, which is called, of course, Edith Judy's.

[02:00:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[02:00:31] [SPEAKER_09]: And he is minus folksy charm, uh, very kind of like bizarrely and intensely interrogating

[02:00:37] [SPEAKER_09]: this waitress about where's the other waitress in a way that is unnerving everybody in the

[02:00:41] [SPEAKER_09]: room.

[02:00:42] [SPEAKER_09]: I was like, oh, is the thing now that he's getting some transmission of another crime

[02:00:48] [SPEAKER_09]: that is going to happen?

[02:00:49] [SPEAKER_09]: He is trying to prevent in this sort of like future.

[02:00:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Can I get ahead of the it is happening again?

[02:00:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[02:00:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Am I now like committed to this infinite loop of being like, well, I live in darkness

[02:01:00] [SPEAKER_09]: and my whole life is trying to prevent these tragedies right before they happen.

[02:01:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I couldn't figure out where it was, uh, going.

[02:01:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, then you have, I think kind of importantly, he does not seem to enjoy his coffee.

[02:01:14] [SPEAKER_09]: No.

[02:01:14] [SPEAKER_09]: She serves him coffee.

[02:01:15] [SPEAKER_09]: He takes a sip.

[02:01:16] [SPEAKER_09]: He has no response.

[02:01:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[02:01:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Then he sees this woman.

[02:01:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe it's bad coffee.

[02:01:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Right?

[02:01:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Yep.

[02:01:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Fucked with.

[02:01:21] [SPEAKER_09]: You're like, oh, I want to see Cooper take these guys down, but you want to see him

[02:01:24] [SPEAKER_09]: take it down and be like, gentlemen, you know, what are we doing here?

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_09]: That's no way to treat a lady.

[02:01:30] [SPEAKER_09]: And instead it's like upsetting and he's putting guns in a fryer and he's like, step

[02:01:34] [SPEAKER_09]: away.

[02:01:34] [SPEAKER_09]: The bullets might explode.

[02:01:36] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm like, you're going to like fucking like burn this diner to the ground.

[02:01:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Then he's driving there with all this purpose.

[02:01:42] [SPEAKER_09]: And then when he goes to the door, it is so upsetting because you're like, why are you

[02:01:46] [SPEAKER_09]: poking this?

[02:01:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Right?

[02:01:48] [SPEAKER_09]: There's this feeling of like, shouldn't the happy ending here be just knowing that you

[02:01:52] [SPEAKER_09]: prevented the crime from happening?

[02:01:54] [SPEAKER_09]: What more do you need to meddle with?

[02:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Sort of in its way, right?

[02:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the meta, the meta extrapolation is that it's like a, like a disavowal of the entire

[02:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: idea of the re why do we need to do more Twin Peaks?

[02:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:02:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:02:07] [SPEAKER_07]: But then as you said, when he walks in, there's a dead body.

[02:02:09] [SPEAKER_07]: But I mean, also she's rattled.

[02:02:11] [SPEAKER_07]: She's clearly in the midst of some insane personal drama.

[02:02:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And he's like, yeah, yeah.

[02:02:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Laura Palmer, Twin Peaks, Washington.

[02:02:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Want to come with me?

[02:02:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:02:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And she's coming with him because she's like, well, I have to escape whatever the fuck

[02:02:22] [SPEAKER_07]: this is.

[02:02:22] [SPEAKER_09]: She literally says, like, I'm in a bit of a bind and it would be better for me to escape

[02:02:26] [SPEAKER_09]: with an FBI agent.

[02:02:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Will I need a jacket?

[02:02:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:02:29] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, yeah, you'll need a jacket.

[02:02:30] [SPEAKER_09]: I was already planning on getting out of Dodge.

[02:02:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[02:02:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Neither of them addressed this body.

[02:02:36] [SPEAKER_09]: No.

[02:02:37] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[02:02:37] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, what?

[02:02:38] [SPEAKER_09]: You don't have a dead body on one of your couches?

[02:02:39] [SPEAKER_09]: No, of course I do.

[02:02:40] [SPEAKER_09]: But I'm just saying that's not an admission of guilt.

[02:02:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And they go to the Palmer home, which is this like at this point, it's like the fucking

[02:02:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Amityville Horror House.

[02:02:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:02:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Like the very site of it is kind of like for a Twin Peaks fan.

[02:02:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I think a little freaky.

[02:02:53] [SPEAKER_07]: The woman who plays the woman, Miss Alice Tremond, is the real owner of the house.

[02:02:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh.

[02:02:59] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if you look that up.

[02:03:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Wild.

[02:03:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.

[02:03:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Who probably, I guess, has to deal with people being like, hey, did Laura Palmer get molested?

[02:03:07] [SPEAKER_07]: She seems lovely.

[02:03:08] [SPEAKER_07]: She seems great.

[02:03:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Noggett, like Twin Peaks tourists showing up.

[02:03:12] [SPEAKER_09]: We were doing George Lucas talk show in Seattle earlier this year before David Lynch

[02:03:18] [SPEAKER_09]: had won our March Madness, before I had seen any Twin Peaks.

[02:03:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And Connor and Patrick went to the house.

[02:03:25] [SPEAKER_09]: They wanted to go to Tweety's.

[02:03:27] [SPEAKER_09]: They wanted to do all the sort of landmarks.

[02:03:29] [SPEAKER_09]: All the Twin Peaks tourism.

[02:03:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[02:03:30] [SPEAKER_09]: And they were saying this woman bought the house, had never seen Twin Peaks.

[02:03:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[02:03:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Then had to start dealing with people coming to the house.

[02:03:36] [SPEAKER_09]: And now has turned her home into like 50% Twin Peaks Museum.

[02:03:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Now is obsessed with Twin Peaks.

[02:03:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Good for her.

[02:03:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Now like kind of lives in Twin Peaks by design.

[02:03:46] [SPEAKER_07]: She closes the series out.

[02:03:48] [SPEAKER_07]: She does.

[02:03:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:03:48] [SPEAKER_07]: What a way to go.

[02:03:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:03:50] [SPEAKER_07]: And I didn't put together that.

[02:03:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I just remember watching.

[02:03:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I really, I will never forget it.

[02:03:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Like just watching this on my couch alone.

[02:03:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And you're like checking the clock.

[02:03:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:03:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.

[02:03:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Like there's like five minutes left.

[02:04:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:04:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, and it's truly right.

[02:04:02] [SPEAKER_07]: What's happening is just Cooper being like, eh, Laura?

[02:04:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, is this sparking anything?

[02:04:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, do you know Sarah, by the way?

[02:04:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, you know, she's like talking to a husband who is hidden behind the door.

[02:04:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And she's like, let me ask him quickly.

[02:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: She is dropping Twin Peaks lore.

[02:04:16] [SPEAKER_07]: She mentions that she bought it from Miss Chalfant, the old lady, the creepy old lady from

[02:04:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Twin Peaks.

[02:04:21] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know how else to describe.

[02:04:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:04:22] [SPEAKER_07]: This lady.

[02:04:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:04:23] [SPEAKER_02]: We all know and love her.

[02:04:24] [SPEAKER_07]: We love her.

[02:04:25] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's true.

[02:04:26] [SPEAKER_07]: There's some like breadcrumb, I guess, for fans to think about there.

[02:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and then she hears, right, like there is some implication of like this world as like

[02:04:38] [SPEAKER_02]: a sinister mirage or something because Laura hears her name whispered and.

[02:04:43] [SPEAKER_07]: And screams.

[02:04:44] [SPEAKER_07]: As Cheryl Lee is, you know, the best in the world at doing.

[02:04:48] [SPEAKER_07]: What year is it?

[02:04:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, like I've, there's this read that I've read, you know, I've sort of plumbed around

[02:04:53] [SPEAKER_07]: like Reddit and, you know, things like that.

[02:04:55] [SPEAKER_07]: And my darker days, you know, and like this read that like, it's like we're in Laura's

[02:05:00] [SPEAKER_07]: dream now.

[02:05:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:05:01] [SPEAKER_07]: And she's created this sort of cover in the dream and he's like waking her up.

[02:05:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:05:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's why she's screaming.

[02:05:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Like he's, he's messing with it too much.

[02:05:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:05:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And like, that's one way.

[02:05:14] [SPEAKER_07]: But like, I, yeah, the, the, the sort of indictment of Cooper is the white knight strikes

[02:05:18] [SPEAKER_07]: me as sort of a crucial thing for the finale of the return.

[02:05:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and like the idea that fire walk with me is one, you know, maybe my favorite film.

[02:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and that film is like, is all Cheryl Lee, like the performance in that film is incredible

[02:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and devastating.

[02:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And it almost, it feels like there is this like ugliness in, you know, like in why my

[02:05:45] [SPEAKER_02]: parents didn't want me watching Blue Velvet, because there is this like very deep ugliness

[02:05:49] [SPEAKER_02]: that, you know, David Lynch talks about as this, like seeing that naked woman on the street

[02:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and, you know, the bugs under the ground.

[02:05:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And like, right, there's this sort of, um, origin story of like deep trauma rot at the

[02:06:03] [SPEAKER_02]: heart of this like 1950s, uh, American dream that seems to be like very crucial to the filmography.

[02:06:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But like nowhere is this like rendered in more just like ugly, devastating and like empathetic,

[02:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: just close, close terms than with Cheryl Lee and fire walk with me.

[02:06:21] [SPEAKER_09]: And, and her performance in this episode is incredible as well.

[02:06:24] [SPEAKER_09]: It is.

[02:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But she goes, she goes to heaven at the end of fire walk with me.

[02:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: She gets a release.

[02:06:29] [SPEAKER_02]: He like lets her ascend and then here's Cooper to like rip her back out.

[02:06:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[02:06:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:06:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Buffy vibes again.

[02:06:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Buffy went to heaven.

[02:06:36] [SPEAKER_07]: It's true.

[02:06:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, spoiler alert for season five of Buffy.

[02:06:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, it's, where, where do you stand on Matrix Resurrections?

[02:06:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I love Matrix Resurrections.

[02:06:46] [SPEAKER_02]: We're in a safe space here.

[02:06:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You're smart and normal.

[02:06:47] [SPEAKER_09]: So right.

[02:06:48] [SPEAKER_09]: We, we love that movie.

[02:06:49] [SPEAKER_09]: But that's a movie that has, I think when a lot of people still, I see to this day,

[02:06:54] [SPEAKER_09]: go like, that is this like incredibly cynical movie about someone acknowledging I'm basically

[02:06:59] [SPEAKER_09]: being forced.

[02:07:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Warner Brothers is making me do this.

[02:07:01] [SPEAKER_09]: To make a movie defensively to hold onto the rights.

[02:07:04] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm like, that is such a passionate, personal, empathetic movie.

[02:07:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But that is also about like examining the cultural weirdness of us wanting these actors to stay

[02:07:15] [SPEAKER_09]: in these characters, in these places, retelling the same stories.

[02:07:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, what are we looking for here?

[02:07:20] [SPEAKER_09]: And there's some of that in, I think, this ending of like.

[02:07:24] [SPEAKER_09]: For sure.

[02:07:24] [SPEAKER_09]: You wanted resolution at Twin Peaks.

[02:07:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, Laura Palmer was in a good place.

[02:07:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[02:07:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Why do you want more from her?

[02:07:30] [SPEAKER_09]: And there's also this.

[02:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: This, yeah, that like, perhaps if this is David Lynch making a final, like, he's like,

[02:07:38] [SPEAKER_02]: okay, how do I, what, how do I close it out?

[02:07:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Besides the monkey.

[02:07:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, he's, he's like, the pursuit of resolution.

[02:07:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:07:48] [SPEAKER_02]: The pursuit even of like unpacking something from your past creatively will ultimately just

[02:07:53] [SPEAKER_02]: lead you back to originary trauma.

[02:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[02:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: You know?

[02:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[02:07:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[02:07:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's beautifully said.

[02:07:59] [SPEAKER_07]: I do too.

[02:08:00] [SPEAKER_07]: It rattled me at the time.

[02:08:02] [SPEAKER_07]: The Merovingian should be involved now that you're thinking that that should have happened.

[02:08:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[02:08:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Like maybe, uh, Cooper's like, I need to cross to this other world.

[02:08:09] [SPEAKER_07]: The Merovingian is like, very well.

[02:08:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, first you must eat my magic cake or whatever.

[02:08:14] [SPEAKER_09]: But like so upsetting that this show ends on credits playing over still image of Laura whispering

[02:08:21] [SPEAKER_09]: into Cooper's ear when like most of this season has ended over concert footage.

[02:08:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[02:08:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Or Ed sadly eating an instant lunch right at his desk.

[02:08:31] [SPEAKER_09]: But this is closer to the language of the original series where it's like credits playing

[02:08:35] [SPEAKER_09]: over prom photo of Laura.

[02:08:38] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's like, now this is the new cursed image that has replaced it.

[02:08:42] [SPEAKER_09]: That is frozen in time forever.

[02:08:44] [SPEAKER_10]: Quite cursed.

[02:08:45] [SPEAKER_10]: Fun to revisit?

[02:08:46] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh my God.

[02:08:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[02:08:47] [SPEAKER_10]: I had such a great time.

[02:08:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Griffin, you've watched Twin Peaks The Return.

[02:08:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.

[02:08:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, like C plus.

[02:08:57] [SPEAKER_09]: C minus cinema score.

[02:08:58] [SPEAKER_09]: But, um, no, I, no, I liked it a tremendous amount.

[02:09:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.

[02:09:02] [SPEAKER_09]: It's been, uh, I, I've, I've, I've said this, but it's just, uh, the Lynch headspace living

[02:09:09] [SPEAKER_09]: in it for months.

[02:09:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Not the only thing I'm watching, but like it being the overriding, uh, world I'm living

[02:09:17] [SPEAKER_09]: in because of, uh, this being my career now, my job.

[02:09:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Chained to the old blank check desk.

[02:09:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I'm like a little, uh, relieved.

[02:09:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Especially because this is so, uh, challenging.

[02:09:30] [SPEAKER_09]: The Return in particular.

[02:09:32] [SPEAKER_09]: And is like really kind of litigating his whole body of works, themes and ideas and images and

[02:09:38] [SPEAKER_09]: everything in a way that can like sometimes feel very punishing by design.

[02:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the thing that was so exciting about it at the time was like someone being given

[02:09:50] [SPEAKER_02]: that canvas, you know, and like 18 hours on television to like break.

[02:09:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I just look at it and I'm like, oh my God, like the, the way that this is subverting

[02:10:05] [SPEAKER_02]: structure, you know, narrative structure.

[02:10:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But on such a grand scale that we usually only see, like TV is just so conservative,

[02:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: right?

[02:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like.

[02:10:13] [SPEAKER_07]: By design, it has to be.

[02:10:15] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a status quo you have to obey.

[02:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Like even like, even like knowing what people are going to be wanting week to week and knowing,

[02:10:23] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, knowing like that the episode before the end is like some kind of, uh, emotional

[02:10:28] [SPEAKER_02]: resolution.

[02:10:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the last one does a different thing.

[02:10:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Like just seeing David Lynch, like explode these notions or not even exploded.

[02:10:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Cause it just feels like he like took it and ripped it apart until like each of the

[02:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: threads were like their own Island that like kind of saw the other one, but didn't

[02:10:45] [SPEAKER_02]: quite.

[02:10:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I just, it's just like, I don't know.

[02:10:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a ball that I, and I think many other filmmakers are just like, that would be

[02:10:55] [SPEAKER_02]: a fun ball to run with further down court.

[02:10:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, yeah.

[02:10:59] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I feel like it's a thing that you and I complain about a lot.

[02:11:01] [SPEAKER_09]: I thought you even more than me, um, about how frustrated we are with this notion that

[02:11:07] [SPEAKER_09]: like streaming and the legitimacy, the legitimizing of television as an art form, as a storytelling

[02:11:13] [SPEAKER_09]: form has created some like golden age where now we're no longer shackled to the structures

[02:11:18] [SPEAKER_09]: and expectations of broadcast television.

[02:11:20] [SPEAKER_09]: And people can really branch out and do other shit.

[02:11:23] [SPEAKER_09]: And you're like B level Marvel character.

[02:11:25] [SPEAKER_09]: This is the fucking thing.

[02:11:27] [SPEAKER_09]: You're just like, you watch this and you're like, it's been almost 10 years since this

[02:11:31] [SPEAKER_09]: aired and everything still feels conservative.

[02:11:33] [SPEAKER_09]: It just feels conservative in like different clothing.

[02:11:36] [SPEAKER_09]: There is as much of a like notion, a very kind of like, um, uh, limited notion of how

[02:11:44] [SPEAKER_09]: TV can function.

[02:11:45] [SPEAKER_09]: We just changed what that is, but most TV shows still fit into like one of three boxes at

[02:11:52] [SPEAKER_09]: most.

[02:11:53] [SPEAKER_09]: And when you're, you know, watching something like this where you really are, I think to

[02:11:57] [SPEAKER_09]: your point, Jane, like exploding the notion of storytelling and structure and episodic narratives

[02:12:02] [SPEAKER_09]: and all of this.

[02:12:03] [SPEAKER_09]: And then you're like, and what do we like get on the other end of this?

[02:12:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Like other filmmakers take a lot of money from big streaming companies and make like a 10

[02:12:10] [SPEAKER_09]: hour movie.

[02:12:11] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm like, this is neither fish nor fowl.

[02:12:13] [SPEAKER_09]: You're just making something that is like trying to, I don't know.

[02:12:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, in a funny way, like a lot of those, a lot of the best shows like have a lot, I

[02:12:21] [SPEAKER_02]: think in common with this.

[02:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just Twin Peaks Return like pushed it way farther.

[02:12:26] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like something like The Sopranos was like constantly about subverting.

[02:12:31] [SPEAKER_07]: The Sopranos is the Calvin and Hobbes of like where it's like Calvin and Hobbes is like

[02:12:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Bill Watterson eventually being like, I fucking hate that I have to do four panels.

[02:12:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, can I do something else?

[02:12:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's like, not really, man.

[02:12:41] [SPEAKER_07]: It goes in the newspaper.

[02:12:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And David Chase is kind of doing that in The Sopranos, but can't go all the way.

[02:12:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, if it doesn't, it's a pretty adventurous way.

[02:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, all right.

[02:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So like Michael Imperio is going to die in 10 minutes in and then like Tony's going to

[02:12:54] [SPEAKER_02]: go do drugs in Vegas.

[02:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's like a radical departure from.

[02:12:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Spoiler alert for The Sopranos.

[02:13:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.

[02:13:01] [SPEAKER_07]: And no, but also things like The Test Dream where that feels like David Chase being like

[02:13:07] [SPEAKER_07]: to all the fans of the show who are like, who's whacking who?

[02:13:11] [SPEAKER_07]: He's just like, fuck you.

[02:13:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Here's Annette Benny.

[02:13:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Tony's going to talk to Annette Benny in his dream.

[02:13:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:13:15] [SPEAKER_07]: And say, are you Annette Bening?

[02:13:17] [SPEAKER_07]: And she's going to go, yeah, I am.

[02:13:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Or the Lauren Bacall episode.

[02:13:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:13:21] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a lot of stuff in it.

[02:13:22] [SPEAKER_07]: It feels very violently angry at its audience in the best way.

[02:13:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[02:13:27] [SPEAKER_07]: The return doesn't feel that way, but it does feel this feels sort of violently angry at

[02:13:32] [SPEAKER_07]: resolutions a little bit.

[02:13:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And confrontational about like form and narrative.

[02:13:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[02:13:36] [SPEAKER_07]: And like, obviously Twin Peaks is a show that had a resolution foisted on it a little bit

[02:13:40] [SPEAKER_07]: by its network, right?

[02:13:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Like you have to tell us who killed Laura Palmer.

[02:13:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, what are you talking about?

[02:13:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And he's like, you didn't want that.

[02:13:46] [SPEAKER_07]: And you don't want this either.

[02:13:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Cooper thinks he wants it, but you don't want this.

[02:13:50] [SPEAKER_09]: That's a really good point.

[02:13:51] [SPEAKER_09]: The part of him fighting against the expectations and structures is like, we did the show where

[02:13:57] [SPEAKER_09]: we did what everyone asked us to do.

[02:13:59] [SPEAKER_09]: And we all got mad.

[02:14:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Everyone got furious.

[02:14:01] [SPEAKER_09]: It made everyone unhappy simultaneously.

[02:14:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I hate to do those big meta reads because I'm like, it's not just him grousing about

[02:14:06] [SPEAKER_07]: network notes, but like, you know, resolutions are unsatisfying is a thing you can think about.

[02:14:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And maybe like dishonest.

[02:14:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Is there something like inherently dishonest about like putting things all in a neat resolved

[02:14:19] [SPEAKER_09]: space, which is movies don't really do.

[02:14:21] [SPEAKER_09]: And I do.

[02:14:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember like thinking, cause when this aired in the aftermath of like unpacking the ending

[02:14:30] [SPEAKER_02]: for myself, I was very much like working on World's Fair.

[02:14:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember really thinking just a lot of less about like the, the ending contextually

[02:14:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and more like the, how the end, like what the ending left me with.

[02:14:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[02:14:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, like the ending left me on a hook that I was basically like having dreams about for

[02:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: two months, trying to like wrestle and come to my own sort of peace with.

[02:14:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like a wonderful way to, I've ended two movies this way, you know, it's a wonderful

[02:14:59] [SPEAKER_02]: way to end the movie because when the TV show ends with like all of the plot lines getting

[02:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: satisfyingly like settled, you just, you're like, okay, that was fun.

[02:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: What's the next TV show?

[02:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Doesn't really leave you with.

[02:15:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[02:15:15] [SPEAKER_07]: No questions.

[02:15:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[02:15:16] [SPEAKER_09]: It's ending with questions rather than ending with answers.

[02:15:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Which are, I think in this case, quite generative to like a lot of the things that he is

[02:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: preoccupied with.

[02:15:26] [SPEAKER_07]: I agree with that.

[02:15:27] [SPEAKER_07]: God bless.

[02:15:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Do you want to play the ratings game, Griffin?

[02:15:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:15:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I just noticed, I noted, I looked up the, we usually do a box office game, which is

[02:15:35] [SPEAKER_07]: harder to do with a TV that aired on Showtime.

[02:15:39] [SPEAKER_07]: But the USA Today article about cable ratings in September 2017 notes rudely that Showtime's

[02:15:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Twin Peaks The Returns sputtered out with a typically low 240,000.

[02:15:51] [SPEAKER_07]: It sucked.

[02:15:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:15:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Now, because we're covering TV, of course, we're doing the ratings game this week.

[02:15:59] [SPEAKER_09]: But I should mention that it is brought to us by our friends at Regal.

[02:16:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Regal Unlimited, of course, is the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays for

[02:16:08] [SPEAKER_09]: itself in just two visits.

[02:16:09] [SPEAKER_09]: And for this month only, an unprecedented 20% off your first three months.